Ep 178: Susan Zummo ~ From Fear to Frequency & Connecting with Source

What if the key to your spiritual awakening was hidden within you all along? Join us for an enlightening conversation with Susan Zummo, the originator of the Soul Patterning Harmonics ascension energy technique. From her childhood in a Catholic, middle-class family to profound spiritual experiences at a young age, Susan shares her journey of seeking and embracing her soul's connection to Source. Her transformative tale highlights how a significant mentor helped her shift from external searches for validation to an internal embrace of the soul.

Susan guides us through the nuances of personal intuition and the pivotal role it plays in spiritual growth. Together, we explore the challenges that fear poses and how overcoming it can elevate us to a state of higher frequencies and profound spiritual balance. By understanding avatars and ascended beings who live fearlessly, Susan emphasises the importance of spiritual counselling and the joy of growth beyond a lifetime of merely fixing problems. The discussion encourages us to stop fearing the unknown and instead, revel in the beauty of personal and collective spiritual evolution.

As we anticipate significant changes by 2025, Susan helps us envision a future where our personal growth can influence humanity's collective consciousness. By shifting our frequencies and addressing the layers of fear, we find ourselves ready to impact the world around us positively. We explore Greg Braden's insights on our connection to Source and how we can better harness our bodies in spiritual exploration. Susan's wisdom and experiences offer a roadmap to help us navigate our unique paths to enlightenment, emphasising the importance of finding mentors who resonate with our energies.

Chapters

• 0:02 Connecting With Source and Spiritual Growth
• 17:34 Connecting to Higher Frequencies
• 28:10 Shifting Frequencies Toward Spiritual Growth
• 40:02 Navigating Personal Growth and Humanity

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:02

Truth and Transcendence, brought to you by being Space with Catherine Llewellyn. Truth and Transcendence, episode 178, with special guest Susan Zumo. Now Susan can be found at susanzumocom, and Zumo is Z-U-M-M-O or, I think, z-u-m-m-o in the States, and Susan's here today to talk about connection to source, which immediately is a massive topic. She's the originator of the Ascension Energy Technique, soul Patterning Harmonics, also an interfaith minister and a practitioner and teacher of a wealth of spiritual modalities, so a lady of many parts, and you can find out all about Susan's workshops and private consultations on her website, as mentioned, susanzumocom. And I feel that connection to source is especially relevant right now, even if only because it feels like there's so much encouragement to connect to anything but the source in our lives, and so, even if only for that reason, it's worth paying attention and talking about it. So we'll see why that may be as the conversation unfolds. So, susan, thank you so much for coming on the show.

Speaker 2: 1:36

I appreciate you having me so much. Catherine. Thank you Excellent.

Speaker 1: 1:42

So, susan, you are really into being connected to the source and, like all of us, as you've said to me, you're aware that we move in and out of that connection and so on and so forth. Can you remember far enough back to when you first sort of got hold of this notion of connection to source and realized it was something that was really important to you?

Speaker 2: 2:07

Yeah, that's a good question. I would say about around the age of 12, I started to get very, very interested in all things spiritual and I just read and read and read. I explored, I connected on an inner level and had a very interesting connection, had an out-of-body experience, had an experience with automatic writing. I honestly have to say, didn't have them again after that consciously, but it was a carrot, like my soul dangled a carrot and said here's a little taste. Do you know? You want to look into this. And that's what kind of set me on my path, because I wanted that feeling again.

Speaker 1: 3:01

Yeah, and what did that feeling, what did it feel like that experience?

Speaker 2: 3:06

It felt bigger than I was. I felt bigger than my body. I felt bigger than my knowing. At the time, I guess you could say, my consciousness expanded although I didn't have language for it at the time but I felt there was something bigger. There was something there and because of my upbringing, I thought it was out there.

Speaker 1: 3:38

And so I did a lot of outside seeking, just like you said, mm, yeah, oh, I see what you mean. So because of your upbringing, you assumed that if something was massive and wow, it couldn't possibly be within you. It had to be without you. Yeah, I understand, yes, right, and so you went searching for it. And when did you realize you weren't going to find it outside?

Speaker 2: 4:00

Well, I'd like to say relatively soon. To be very honest, I'd probably say it took me about 30 years.

Speaker 1: 4:09

Yeah Well, hey, it's not bad to do it at all, frankly, right, you were still in your early 40s then that's not bad going in my opinion.

Speaker 2: 4:18

Yeah. It took a while, yeah.

Speaker 1: 4:22

Do you have any idea how those early experiences came to be? Was there any particular circumstance or anything that was occurring, or was it just completely out of the blue?

Speaker 2: 4:38

I think it was my soul waking me up. It was out of the blue for me. I had a very mundane childhood. I was a latchkey kid. For people who know what that means, it means that when I came home from school I had a key around my neck and we put it in the door and let ourselves in until my parents came home from work. Until my parents came home from work, raised in a very middle-class environment, grew up on TV. So I didn't really have. Now I had a religious background right, I grew up Catholic but I didn't have a spiritual background and I believe about that age and I'm sure it had a lot to do with hormone shifts and the centers opening up, but at that age my soul just kind of put that in me to go a woman and it was at that moment that your soul chose to say, right, while you're doing that, which won't take much attention, obviously at all.

Speaker 1: 5:56

Just think about this as well.

Speaker 2: 5:59

Yeah, yeah, you know, while your hormones are raging and you're trying to figure all that out, let's throw this piece in, which I think was really a good idea for my soul. Of course my soul knows, but it really set me on the path and it was a path that I pursued, I would say, outside of my family and growing up in my family, because really I was the only one that did it. I stayed in the closet spiritual closet with my family until I was in my 30s. You know, which is silly now that I look back at it, but you know, back then it was very important. Back then it was very important and it just gave me a drive I guess that's the best word a drive to find it.

Speaker 2: 7:10

And I always thought that the way to connect with Source and my soul was to go up and reach up and go out to connect to it and it wasn't until I started bringing in soul patterning that I got that we're bringing the soul in, that we don't go out to get it, we stay where we are and we bring it in. And I had a wonderful teacher who also did a lot of work connecting us to the soul, a lot of techniques connecting us to the soul, and she's passed on now but she's the one who really said don't go out there, don't go out there to connect, bring it in. And that was a revelation for me.

Speaker 1: 7:43

Yeah, how did you find her?

Speaker 2: 7:47

well, I really, I was really guided to her. Um, now, this doesn't get my age away, but back in 1979 I came across the brochure for a workshop and a friend friend of mine said we should go and I said okay, and we had to sign up for classes and I just could not decide what I wanted to take. So about two weeks before we were supposed to go, my friend said you better sign up or you're not going to get into any class. So I looked through the brochure. He had to make three choices. Her class was actually my third choice and I thought well, if I don't get the other two, I'll go to this one.

Speaker 2: 8:30

I went into her class the first day. She was walking around checking name tags to make sure that everyone belonged and she said this class has been closed for months. People have been trying to get into this class for months and we've had to turn them away and I need to make sure everyone who's here belongs here. And I'm sitting there thinking to myself, really, Because I just signed up two weeks ago and I spent a week with this woman. I can tell you I fell madly in love with her energy. I knew that she was the one. She was the teacher. I stayed with her from 79 until she passed away in 2019. And she never taught the same thing twice.

Speaker 1: 9:21

Never Sounds like an amazing woman. Well, I just feel like I want to say to honor that woman, that spirit, that beautiful woman, what was the name of her class? The first one you did.

Speaker 2: 9:35

It was the Integrated Awareness Technique. Her name was Connie Newton and I stayed with her in 2000. Newton and I stayed with her in 2000. She initiated me to teach the process and to teach a healing called Soma Pi, and then, as we continued, I taught that class for 22 years and during that time I brought through soul patterning and worked on my own courses as well. But she was a person who she never went back and taught the same thing again. She never repeated a class and everything she taught me worked. And that's a big thing for me, because I've taken a lot of classes where you come out of the class, you go home and you do it and it doesn't work. So that's always been important, absolutely.

Speaker 1: 10:33

Wow, I'm really struck by that. You know, working for 40 years with the same teacher, you know to me, that makes perfect sense to me. But I'm also aware that there are people who think you can go on a weekend and then you've got everything that you need. So the fact that you were so, you must have been quite young when you first worked with her I was 28, I think yeah, okay, so okay, I was 28. Yeah, so that's the bulk of your adult life that you were working with her.

Speaker 2: 11:09

Yes, I learned so much from her. One of the things I learned was to never have people dependent on you, so she would never allow anyone to become dependent on her. She had tremendous integrity and truly her mission in life was to raise the consciousness of humankind. That was it. She never advertised, you know, people just found her like me. But she taught me how to teach. She taught me, um, not to run away from your, your issues. She spent years telling us to release fear and teaching us how to do that, to get ready for this time period, and my best friend and I met in her class back in 79. And we say all the time not only was she ahead of the curve, we're still ahead of the curve, people are just starting to teach the things that she taught us years ago, and so we know that our job is to be forerunners, you know, kind of like first wave people, dolores Cannon's first wave people. We're in that group.

Speaker 1: 12:31

Yeah, like trailblazers. So you're the ones with the machete at the front of the group making their way through the jungle. We are, we are, we're the ones that go me'll volunteer me yeah, yeah, but you say that in a very light and playful way. You know, um, in the wake of decades of dedicated work, and I think that's something I really want to underline as well, because that dedicated work it's not like every single day. You're coming, you know, you open your front door and there's photographers going. Oh, my god, it's you, you know.

Speaker 1: 13:09

Every day it's more like you're working day in, day out for years and then, you're able to do some stuff and that's what you're doing, because your whole kind of energy, in the way you're talking to me you know you could be really egotistic about all of that you don't come across that way at all. You come across as humble, you know.

Speaker 2: 13:31

In that regard, Let me tell you, my teacher was a. She was a triple scorpion, and we would teach in front of her and she would give us feedback. You could not have an ego. You just could not have an ego. You just could not have an ego. She taught us that and I don't think I had very much of one to start out with in terms of that, but she was always quality over quantity. She was never one to seek the limelight. She didn't think it would do us any good, and I have to agree with her. So I'm not a celebrity, but that doesn't matter. I always forget when I do my YouTube videos, I forget to tell people to hit the button and do all that stuff because I just want to get the message out. You know, and I'm okay with that too.

Speaker 1: 14:29

Yeah, I totally get that. I've got a teacher at the moment who she's Australian, I mean I don't. I did a weekend workshop with her and I'm trained as a teacher in her modality, which she trained me to do. So I haven't spent lots of time with her, but she, you know, refuses to have a website, doesn't want an online presence and people are forever getting really frustrated with her and she's no, sorry, I'm too busy, you know, bringing through this next modality I'm bringing through. You know it's not congruent with the grid work I'm doing, you know, etc. Um, yeah, so I totally get that and I think you're right. People do find their way. Do you find that, now that the right people seem to find their way to you?

Speaker 2: 15:16

I do. I have people who who will call me and they say, oh, I picked up your brochure at this place. I'm like I've never left a brochure in that place, so I'm just okay. And I do want to say that you know, sometimes a weekend workshop is all you need, because you hit that nexus point where you're ready to flip that switch inside and that person helps facilitate that. We're not in a time period anymore where you do that for 40 years or 20 years or 10 years.

Speaker 2: 15:52

Nobody's got time for that anymore. You know, that's how I came up through it and I'm really grateful for it. But I'm also a very bottom line person and I want things to happen quickly. I've always been pretty impatient, so that's why I took a lot of weekend workshops, you know, and some of them were effective. You know, my teacher encouraged us to go study with other people, and I did. I studied with all kinds of people, some very good and some very bad. The best ones helped me get connected inside.

Speaker 1: 16:30

Yeah, those were the best ones because I could go home and connect inside yeah, and that's something that you have with you rather than something you have to go outside for. That's right. So when you're talking about connection, I'll just invite you actually to say a bit more about what you. When you say connection to source, would you say a bit more about what that means to you and kind of your take on that and what that is?

Speaker 2: 17:03

Well, first I'll say that my take changes all the time. So if you ask me next month, that might be completely different. But for me it means now remembering that I'm always connected to Source. I don't need to have a special technique, I don't need to have a special ceremony, I don't need to have special equipment. That source and I are always connected. I would not be breathing and walking around.

Speaker 2: 17:34

So for me, remembering that means that when I have a question or a challenge or a conundrum, or a challenge or a conundrum, don't go looking out there for the answer, because I'm already connected and the answer so many times is not what I expect, it's just not.

Speaker 2: 18:05

You know, we were talking about allergies earlier and sometimes, when I have something going on physically, I'll just kind of close my eyes and go okay, what do I need to do? Well, I don't always see a medication or hear. What I will see is the person who does that thing. So I may see my friend who's an acupuncturist who does that thing. So I may see my friend who's an acupuncturist, you know, I may see my friend who does flower essences and then I'm like okay, then I know where to start looking. So, being open to receiving the way that source wants to give it to me, as opposed to the way that I want to get it. You know, because I'm clear audience, so I like I'm like just talk in here and just say it, you know, and it doesn't always work that way. But I think being connected to source comes down to eliminating what is not connected to source and changing your thoughts, your beliefs, your habits, those kind of things.

Speaker 1: 19:07

Right, thank you, that's very clear. So that's almost like a kind of still place of knowing that you're already connected to source, naturally already, and is it your view that we are all connected to Source already?

Speaker 2: 19:44

either in this life or others, but I believe that if source is all that there is, then that encompasses all that there is here as well.

Speaker 1: 19:54

Yeah, and so. So it also encompasses the idea of not being connected to source, is an expression of being connected to source.

Speaker 2: 20:07

That's right, because you can uninvite yourself as well as you can invite yourself, and lots of people do. Yeah, you know, especially those who are what we call the B team. You know the ones who are the destroyers rather than the builders. Yeah, are the destroyers rather than the builders. You know, they have taken action and free will steps to disconnect themselves from source in order to accomplish the things that they accomplish.

Speaker 1: 20:36

Yeah, but it's a bit like going to a party and choosing to go and sit by yourself on the stairs and be miserable about it when you could be in amongst everybody, being a great time, lovely, well, that kind of implies that there's no work to be done. Uh, in a way, although you were saying that there's the removal of of what is not connection to source, would you say a bit more about that?

Speaker 2: 21:07

I'd say that's fear. Right, because we know source is love. Source is the ultimate love frequency and light frequency. So source is information, which is light, and love, which is expansion, which is light and love which is expansion. So the way that we embrace source to a greater degree is to eliminate fear and fear. We say fear negativity, but fear is the thing, and I think everyone here is working through that right now. I don't think anyone I have yet to meet someone who is fear-free, and if they are, they're probably an avatar and you know they're not mostly human, because if you have a body, you've got stuff.

Speaker 1: 22:01

Exactly what?

Speaker 2: 22:05

do you mean by an avatar An ascended being?

Speaker 1: 22:08

But one who still has a body for the time being.

Speaker 2: 22:11

Yeah, yeah, I haven't met anyone like that yet.

Speaker 1: 22:14

No, but you can conceive of the possibility of that.

Speaker 2: 22:19

You know I'm open to it and I tell people, people. If you find someone like that, let me know yeah I'll bet yeah, I want to. I want to follow that yeah yeah, amazing, so that's interesting.

Speaker 1: 22:35

So you're saying that the um, the fear thing is the main thing that gets in the way of remembering that we're connected to source? Yeah, yeah, okay, and so are you sometimes working with people where that's what you're focusing on with them, helping them?

Speaker 2: 22:56

to move on from that. I work with people. I'm very focused on helping people move from where they are to where they want to get to, and and from a spiritual perspective. And so a lot of the people that I work with, they have the same fears that I had or have, you know, fear of, of, of, of the future, fear of not being good enough, you know those, those kinds of things. So I say that I do spiritual counseling, um, and my practice has truly moved from helping those who are consumed with fear to those who are cleaning out the last little bit and are ready to bring in those higher frequencies.

Speaker 2: 23:51

And I understand, in a way that I didn't before, when people say you have to eliminate fear before you can ascend or move into fifth dimension, 5d, 5 density, because if you don't, it is a painful, uncomfortable, disharmonious experience on many, many levels. And so, having spent most of my life cleaning out my stuff, I'm very focused on okay, now that we've got that under our belts, let's go do the fun stuff. Now. I think we can get addicted to finding things that are broken or wrong with us and fixing them, and at some point you have to say, okay, I've done enough. Let's balance that with doing the others, and I know I've reached that point for myself. So that's kind of where I focus right now. So when I say getting from where you are to where you want to be, I'm talking about good to better best, not from bad to good.

Speaker 1: 25:01

That makes sense. I understand that. Yes, so it's not all remedial work, it's there's developmental uh and and uh. It's that sort of rising up type work, as you were saying, the working with the higher frequencies. Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 25:16

Yeah, and there are people who do that other work and they're phenomenal at it. You know we can't be, I can't do everything. I don't think anybody should. So I'm happy to recommend or refer or say you know that that's not for me.

Speaker 1: 25:35

I'm the same, actually, and I remember hitting on a notion years back which was this thing of okay, am I capable of helping someone in this particular way? But then there's the other question of is this what I need to be doing for my own growth, my own development? And I think that's something we all need to kind of connect in with, isn't it?

Speaker 2: 25:58

Yeah, you have to balance. You do have to balance it.

Speaker 1: 26:01

So what would be developmental for you now would probably be something that you couldn't even conceive of 10, 20 years ago. Is that fair to say?

Speaker 2: 26:12

It would be for me or for me, you know, I think, and for many of us, it's to hold our center and a positive vision of the future. That is my challenge, is to remember what I know the future will be, because there's so many things bombarding me and coming at me right now and the world that says no, it's going to be a disaster, it's going to be horrible. You know, don't have hope. And for me, it is to not go down that path, which is a very enticing path, but to not go down that path and to say no.

Speaker 2: 26:55

This is what I know and I will tell you that, from the time that I could go see a psychic, a reader, a palmist, anything, even before I knew what it meant, I asked every single one of them the same question and that was am I going to be able to do it in this life? And that's all I ever said. And every single one of them said yes, every single one. And when I was conscious enough to know what that meant, I understood that what it meant was the great shift, because of all the lifetimes that I've been here and all the work that I've done, we've never been able to do it. We've never actually made it, but we are going to this time, and I know that. So my great challenge is remembering it, and that's what I'm working on right now.

Speaker 1: 27:59

How wonderful. It's interesting you say that, because I recently got a message through from where messages come from. Talking about March next year is a very significant point in time. Are you connected in with that same thing?

Speaker 2: 28:16

yeah, I think my my feeling is that a lot of things will happen between now and the end of this year, but I believe that 2025 is when we see the ray of sunshine. It's not going to happen overnight, although it could um, because there is always that possibility if people shift their frequency and we hit that tipping point but my feeling is that it will be more gradual and that it will begin in 25 and it will just keep marching forward, that people en masse are going to say I'm not going back there.

Speaker 1: 28:53

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 28:54

I don't want to do that.

Speaker 1: 29:00

And for people who aren't really familiar with some of what we're talking about, what they will have heard from what we just said was something like well, things are going to get better starting in 2025, and then there's something about individual frequencies and shifts and things like that. So would you like to say a little bit more about what that actually means? Absolutely.

Speaker 2: 29:25

Yeah, let's be practical. And we should be right. We can't just talk in terms of energy all day long. We have to ground it. So to ground it, what it means is we're living in a very dualistic world right now. If we are extremely fearful within ourselves and worried worried about the economy, worried about safety, worried about food, worried about disease, worried about government we create a frequency of worry, and everything is created by frequency, including the events in our lives or how we perceive them. So if we want to shift or improve life for ourselves and others, we have to shift our frequency. And the way that we shift frequency is to shift our emotions and our beliefs, and that's the work that everybody talks about.

Speaker 2: 30:31

My feeling is that enough people on this planet are tired of being in that frequency and are starting to get the idea that there could be a different way or a different frequency, and to be open to the possibility that the future doesn't have to be like the past.

Speaker 2: 30:54

We don't have to repeat history, that we have learned from it and by eliminating fearful thoughts, you know, until the future happens, every prediction is accurate. You cannot be wrong with a prediction because it hasn't happened yet. So if we don't know what's going to happen, why don't we just assume the best, yeah Right, and create something beautiful by shifting our frequency? So that's my belief, that there are enough of us in this dualistic world. In this dualistic world, what we're being shown and told is that the minority of negative, fearful people and events are what's happening everywhere, for everybody, because fear is control and the controllers want to have us in fear. If you're not in fear, you're not really controllable, because you know what you know, and so my belief is that the fearless are really in the majority and we will reach that tipping point and the outer world will shift to reflect the inner world. Does that kind of ground it a little better?

Speaker 1: 32:11

Thank you very much. I mean, you know it's a topic that, on one level, cannot be wrapped up in words. So you know, we already know we failed in that regard. But I got used to that idea a long time ago and I'm sure you did as well. But I suppose all we're doing is we're kind of walking around it in circles and pointing in the general direction of what we're talking about around it in circles and pointing in the general direction of what we're talking about, aren't we?

Speaker 2: 32:35

It's a great way to describe it.

Speaker 1: 32:37

Kind of stalking it, that kind of thing, this thing of when people are ready to tune into that sort of thing. I think is also very, very interesting kind of pursuing it when you were 12. But people kind of start connecting to those ideas at all different points in their lives, don't they?

Speaker 2: 33:00

Yes, yes, they do, and it's like reading readiness right. You can't learn how to read until something inside of you is ready. Everybody has their own learning curve.

Speaker 1: 33:13

Yeah, you know, and we have to honor that. Yeah, and sometimes we have other things we need to do before we're ready to go and do something else. I remember I used to think if I was offering something or if there was something I participated in that I thought was fantastic, absolutely everybody else had to do it and they had to do it now. It took me a long time before I realized that for some people, doing that thing was the wrong thing at that point. Maybe later, or maybe not at all, maybe something completely else would be the thing, and that was a big thing to get. And actually, given that you were talking about fear, I now realize that that fixation I had was actually based on fear that I would be left separate from everybody else, that they all had to come and do that same thing, otherwise we wouldn't all be together.

Speaker 2: 34:22

Listen, I had the same thing for years. If I didn't get to a class or if I didn't get to a conference, it meant that I was not where I was supposed to be spiritually. I was not going to advance, I was going to get left behind, absolutely yeah.

Speaker 1: 34:37

And fear is really insidious, isn't it? It can sort of be there when we think it's not.

Speaker 2: 34:42

Yeah, yeah, It'll pop up, you know, just when you're like I used to say all the time wait a minute, Wait a minute. I already cleared that. Why is this happening? You know? Why is this coming back? You know? And it's all just layers and layers and layers. We're always improving and learning and growing, if that's what we want to do.

Speaker 1: 35:03

Yeah, yeah. And when you're working with your clients, are you doing a lot of talking with them or are you doing a lot of energy work with them, or are you doing a lot of um energy work with them, or a combination? Um, yeah it's both.

Speaker 2: 35:19

Um, I learned a long time ago that that when, when I do reading work or teaching, there's an energy that goes with it. Um, so so you, you, that's called holding space. Right, you've got the frequency that you're holding so that you bring that person into your frequency, so that they can feel what it feels like, to experience what you're describing or talking to them about, because then, when they leave you, they can re-feel that experience and understand what that feels like. I don't think I'm making sense, but no, you are. You are Okay.

Speaker 1: 36:03

There's something about when someone comes into your space.

Speaker 2: 36:07

They have an experience in your space that is to do with the energy vibration that you have and that affects them, and some of that they can take away with them along with the words, because I always felt the words were not enough to to, because that's just a mental exercise, which is great, except that your mind doesn't have to do anything. You know your, your mind can say oh, yeah, yeah, I'll change tomorrow, but your mind doesn't have to do the work. So to have that energy or that emotional shift, I think is really important, and I'm also smart enough to know that the law of attraction is always at work someone. I'm either talking to myself or I'm talking from my experience as well, so you know the rule that you know you take two steps, you turn around and you help the person who's one step behind, and you know, then everybody takes two steps and does the same thing.

Speaker 2: 37:08

So I always get tickled when I have a class and we start talking and you get the group theme, or when I'm doing a series of consultations and I'm like, oh, we're talking about this, this is really good. You know, this means that I'm vibrating with that as well, so I get really excited about that yeah, because you're present in the experience with the client and I totally understand.

Speaker 1: 37:36

I've just run a workshop this past weekend and I always say to the group look this, this is about consciousness and that includes my consciousness. So I'm going to go through a shift and as well as you are um, you know, maybe not the same shift, it's you know you have to be it before you can teach it.

Speaker 2: 37:58

So that's why we've got to do the work first, and I can't tell you how many times I'm sure you've had this experience where my guys have said uh, did you hear that? Did you pay attention? You know that's for you too, and I'm like oh, okay, you know, um, or okay, depending upon what it is right, absolutely.

Speaker 1: 38:18

Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 38:20

Yeah, so I think it's great. This, to me, is the most exciting work you can do. When you see the light bulb go off in someone else, when you see their consciousness shift. I don't think there's any better reward than that in the whole universe.

Speaker 1: 38:38

I know I completely agree and I imagine that working with you is probably a really delightful experience, you know, because you're so warm, you know, whilst you're very connected with what you're doing. So, whilst you're very connected with what you're doing, so I really appreciate what you've been sharing with us.

Speaker 2: 38:58

Well, I hope it is, and I hope that my silly sense of humor helps too, because I think that's really important. I don't think we laugh enough in this business.

Speaker 1: 39:11

I agree. Well, you know, people say that, you know, the best way to learn is through play, don't they? So I think sometimes being serious is important, but not all the time. Yeah, I agree, you know, and I also think each personality is there for a reason. It's like yours is there for a reason, mine is there for a reason, and's like yours is there for a reason, mine is there for a reason, and different people will resonate to you or to me, or to other people.

Speaker 2: 39:43

I think that's as it should be, isn't it? It is Because, really, I'm not saying anything new. I'm not teaching anything new. Everybody says the same thing. But the way that we connect on a personality level is important too, because if you don't have that rapport, they could be the best teacher in the world, and I've had that experience. I sat in a room with a man who was so, so enlightened we're talking way back in the early 70s and he just had the worst personality. So when he was not teaching he was just a mean, nasty person, and when he was teaching he was like, absolutely phenomenal. It was like Jekyll and Hyde. And I told my best friend, I said I don't care how enlightened he is, I cannot sit in a room with that man and I will not go to any of his classes. Now there were people who were like yeah, that's how he is. And they and I'm like, nope, not me. If. If what's on the outside doesn't match what's on the inside, I don't want to know you.

Speaker 1: 40:43

Yeah, and also there's different style. You know that some people there's there was a teacher, uh, who I was I went on, um, he did quite like a long online course and there was like a lot of people enrolled and we were all in little groups and something else and a lot of people just found him intolerable, his mode of communication, the way he was. I thought he was okay there, you go see, I was okay with it. I mean, I wouldn't want to move in with him, but you know, as a, as a teacher, he was clear. I felt that he was generous of spirit. You know. You know other people were like I just cannot even listen to him say one sentence isn't that interesting the way that happens, yeah, I.

Speaker 1: 41:33

But I think we should pay attention to it, shouldn't we? And follow what feels right.

Speaker 2: 41:37

We should as practitioners and teachers, because if we know that that rapport is not there, we know that we won't be effective for that person and we should direct them to someone else.

Speaker 1: 41:49

Yeah, yeah, I think that's a really really good point Not keep battering away trying to get through or get past it, but just go. No, the energy of the work should be going into something constructive, not getting over the fact that we don't gel. That's right. Yeah, I think that's really important.

Speaker 2: 42:12

Yeah, and I think that's the sign of a self-aware and what I would call a good teacher or practitioner. And you've got that because you know that.

Speaker 1: 42:23

Yeah, well, I do now, but for a very long time I didn't Because you wanted to help everybody. It was partly because of that, but it was also partly because of professional pride. I can get you to anybody that kind of pride which there's probably some of it still in me, but at least I'm conscious of it. We have these demons, don't we as well, that we need to. We have these demons, don't we as well, that we need to contend with.

Speaker 2: 42:54

We do, I mean, and that's good, because if we lose our humanity, how can we connect and help people?

Speaker 1: 43:04

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 43:05

And to me that's a loss of humanity. You know, I could read anybody. Does it mean I should? No, does it mean it would be good for them? No, you know. Do I feel that? You know, I always say to my clients if you just listen to me and do what I'm telling you, it's not necessarily always what's best for them or what they want, or, you know, it's very arrogant. That is where my ego comes out. And it is arrogant to say just listen to me and tell you know, but that's where mine is, you know, that's where my pitfall is, and I have to just step back and go okay, you know, I'll just give it to you, do what you want with it. And that's been the thing. But you're right. But it's what makes me human, and learning to be human is something that I have just started to accomplish in the last five years.

Speaker 2: 44:06

Wow, yeah, yeah well, there's a thought well, it's a big task, you know. We, we, I pursued spirituality all my life. I'm just starting to pursue humanity. There's the balance yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 44:28

Well, that's very um I don't know what the word is very big of you to say that. You know, I think for any of us, I think for all of us, there's a next shift of us. There's a next shift, isn't there? There's a next thing. Sometimes it's not the same as someone else. I've noticed people in my life who, in terms of the humanity side, the being a human being, are brilliant at it, but, for example, brilliant at it but, for example, can't think their way through a complicated idea or, for example, can't do the you know, so I suppose we do. This is something I've noticed as well. We don't develop evenly. We develop stronger in some areas than others and we end up a sort of wonky kind of shape, don't we? Yeah, for some of us, we're supposed to then bring it into balance, and for some of us, we're supposed to just go. No, I'm just carrying on on that one and the rest can just go yeah.

Speaker 2: 45:39

Yeah, I saw Greg Braden do an interview and he said we haven't even begun to understand what it means to be human, and as human beings we are designed to be connected to source. That's what he was talking. Mostly about technology we're abandoning our own vehicle as a connection to source and bringing in a outside vehicle right Again, going on the outside as a way to connect with source. And he said you know, that's great, except we don't even know how to use our own bodies to do what they were designed to do. Yet. And I thought that was really profound because he's absolutely right.

Speaker 2: 46:33

For most of my spiritual adult life, I've been trying to get out of my body, you know, get up into the ethers, get up into the higher frequencies, hang out with the galactic guys, have a good time with my soul family. And then you come back into the body and you're like, okay, I'm in the body, like it's a punishment, yeah, and and he's saying no, no, that the way to do all of those things is through the body. And that really made me go huh, because that's the opposite of what I was trying to do for a long time.

Speaker 1: 47:06

Yeah, I totally hear you Totally get it.

Speaker 2: 47:10

Yeah, I'm right there with you, wow.

Speaker 1: 47:12

Well, I feel like we could carry on talking for hours, and hours Probably. You know, I just like to remind the listeners. You're not going to get the whole of Susan in one episode. You're going to have to actually contact her to get more. And I'm not. I mean I was I'm so curious about, about soul patterning harmonics, but I'm not even going to ask you about that.

Speaker 2: 47:34

Thank you because it'll take a long time to describe.

Speaker 1: 47:39

And I'm always fascinated by people who bring through new modalities. I just think that's the most extraordinary thing, which I'm in tremendous admiration for, because I understand enough to know that that is a massive experience doing that in terms of service and surrender and everything else. So you know gratitude for you for doing that.

Speaker 2: 48:00

Thank you. I will just, as a postmark, say that I brought it through in 1983. And, just like you, I thought it was the best thing ever. I thought everybody should have it. I taught it for about I think it was one or two years and it was ruining people's lives because they weren't ready for it. And my guys said to me you have to stop teaching, you're going to have to wait. And I was like no, no, this is amazing, this is phenomenal. And they were like, no, you're going to have to wait.

Speaker 2: 48:37

I taught a couple more classes and they were bad. The classes were phenomenal, but afterwards people would call me and say, what did you do? And I was like, okay, talking to a friend, we were talking about the fifth dimension energies. And I said to her oh my God, no wonder soul patterning was such a disaster. It's 5D energy. And I was trying to do it back in the 90s when there was no, there was only 3D, there was no 4D, no 5D, nothing. No wonder it was a disaster. And they went. Now you can do it. And so when you were talking earlier, I was just kind of smiling to myself. I'm like, oh yeah, I know what that feels like.

Speaker 1: 49:29

Yeah, exactly. And, of course, the people who did it in the first place, who then couldn't cope with it. There was probably a reason they needed to have that experience, wasn't there?

Speaker 2: 49:39

There was and there was a reason I need to have that experience.

Speaker 1: 49:42

There was a reason why you needed to. Yeah, sometimes we think sometimes it's a disaster, but actually it was exactly what was supposed to happen.

Speaker 2: 49:49

It was, it was and it was intense healing and some people are not ready for that. They need a more. You know I'm very impatient. I want it to happen now, and some of us need a more progressive, slow, step-by-step kind of process. So I remember I had one girl who wanted to bring more love into her life and she took the class and the next time I saw her I said well, how are you doing? And she said oh my God, I hate this thing. Ever since I took your class, everyone wants to hug me. I don't like being touched. And she was like, can't you undo it? That's what I mean by it was a disaster.

Speaker 1: 50:35

I think that's hilarious.

Speaker 2: 50:38

I was like no.

Speaker 1: 50:42

That's so interesting.

Speaker 2: 50:44

Isn't that funny.

Speaker 1: 50:46

It's very funny. So I'm going to ask you a slightly different question now. So if we think about you know, you mentioned all the things going on in the world and there are a lot of people who are trying to be good leaders at the moment, you know, trying to be part of the solution. Some of those people are simply trying to be good leaders in their own lives, and then you've got all the people who are inquiring and interested in reflecting. So is there something you would like to say to those people?

Speaker 2: 51:31

Yes, I would love to tell them to pray in whatever way they pray, and by pray I mean connect to your source, ask for guidance, ask for assistance, and remember we're never alone.

Speaker 2: 51:50

We tend to think that it's just me, it's me, I'm all by myself, I'm me. Well, there are thousands of unseen helpers and support. There are millions of people who are praying for the same thing that you are and that creates a harmonic right that jumps an octave and shifts everything. So, if you're a leader, pray in whatever way that word means for you, whether it's your spiritual practice or just like me. Go into the kitchen sink to wash dishes and say, okay, I'm washing dishes, got nothing else to do. This would be a great time for you to talk to me. This would be a great time for you to talk to me. This would be a great time for you to inspire me, god. This would be a wonderful time for me to connect while my mind is focused on washing dishes. Whatever that is for you, do it and know that other people are doing the same thing to support what you're doing.

Speaker 1: 52:56

Oh, amazing, I got shivers when you said that that there are millions of people praying for the same thing that you are. Amen to that. Yeah, thank you, amazing. Thank you for having me. Well, we've got a couple. We're not quite done yet. That's good, I'm okay with that We've talked about a lot today and it's been very, very rich. Has there been a favorite part of our conversation for you today?

Speaker 2: 53:26

I have to honestly say it's getting to know you better because, katherine, that I always feel like I'm alone too. And to meet a kindred spirit, to meet someone who understands, who's walked that path and is in service to others and self, that's a treat for me.

Speaker 1: 53:46

Oh, bless you, Thank you.

Speaker 2: 53:48

It's really true and to know that I'm talking to someone in a country that I may never get to visit.

Speaker 1: 53:55

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 53:56

That's amazing.

Speaker 1: 53:59

Oh, thank you so much for saying that. Well, it's the same for me. You know, as you were talking, I thought this woman's amazing. I wonder how could I actually get on one of her seminars. You know, that's sort of really amazing to meet you as well.

Speaker 1: 54:14

Yeah, and then the final thing in a minute. I'd just like to remind everybody of how to find you, and then I'm going to ask you if there's a reflection question of some sort that you would like to leave with the listeners to help them to kind of connect a little deeper with what we've been talking about. But while you're reflecting on that, I'm just going to remind everybody that Susan's website is susanzumocom, which is S-U-S-A-N-Z or Z-U-M-M-O dot com, and her workshops and consultations are on her website, and I imagine people can just contact you from there as well and just say you didn't mention this specifically, but I want to talk to you about it, is that okay? And you look like the sort of person who's up for that. So is there something you'd like to leave the listeners with to take into their week as a kind of reflection question?

Speaker 2: 55:17

Yeah, I would say. My recommendation or suggestion would be to ask yourself every day how can I love myself more? What do I need to know or do today to love myself more?

Speaker 1: 55:34

How can I love myself more? That's another one. Thank you, that's so beautiful.

Speaker 2: 55:43

Wow, that's what I'm working on.

Speaker 1: 55:46

Yeah, yeah, amazing, susan. Thank you so much. This has been amazing. I really appreciate coming on. So, everybody, susan Zumo, go and check her out, connect with her and, if you're lucky enough to be local enough, maybe get yourself on one of her incredible courses. Thank you so much and have a wonderful day. Thank you, catherine, I've just loved it. Thank you, thank you, coaching Pellewa and the Freedom of Spirit workshop on beingspaceworld. Have a wonderful week and I'll see you next time.