Ep 168: Marcus Aurelius Higgs ~ Self-Love, Spirituality & Transformative Storytelling

What if you could truly embrace your authentic self and inspire others to do the same? Join us for an invigorating conversation on Truth & Transcendence with our special guest, Marcus Aurelius Higgs.  Marcus shares a deeply personal story from his childhood—intentionally underperforming on a gifted programme test to avoid higher expectations. This revelation sets the stage for a broader discussion about the importance of self-acceptance and the journey to embracing one's true identity, particularly for those like Marcus, who grew up as a third culture kid navigating multiple cultures.

Our exploration continues with a heartfelt discussion on the spiritual experiences that have shaped Marcus' life and communication philosophy. From his upbringing as a Seventh-day Adventist to transformative moments in multiple culturescapes, we delve into the rich tapestry of experiences that broadened his understanding of spirituality. Influences like Rupert Spira introduced him to non-dualism, and his relationship with his father deeply impacted his career as a communication coach for parents. These threads weave together to form a narrative emphasising sincere belief and well-being as core principles guiding Marcus' life and work.

Finally, we unpack the transformative power of storytelling and slam poetry, especially in processing emotions and stress. Marcus's journey into poetry, inspired by an HBO documentary, highlights the healing and expressive potential of this art form. We also discuss how narrative theory informs his work with parents, helping them understand themselves and communicate more effectively with their pre-teens. Marcus shares his expertise in conducting impactful parenting workshops, such as "14 Conversations to Have Before 14" and "Creating a Digital Plan as a Family." This episode is a treasure trove of insights on leadership, both within the family and beyond, making it a must-listen for anyone committed to personal growth and effective communication.

This episode only scratches the surface of Marcus' talents and gifts.  If you like where he's coming from, please check out his websites (below).

Find Marcus here:
https://marcushiggs.com

https://workshops.marcushiggs.com

Chapters

• 0:02 Identity and Self-Acceptance Evolution
• 17:16 Journey of Spiritual Growth and Communication
• 29:36 Parenting and Connection Through Stories
• 42:39 Navigating Parenting Workshops and Leadership Insights

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:02

Truth and Transcendence, brought to you by being Space with Catherine Llewellyn. Truth and Transcendence, episode 168, with special guest Marcus Aurelius Higgs. Now, if you haven't come across Marcus, he's an inspirational poet and a communication coach to parents of pre-teens through the inspired and skillful use of words. And Marcus has a very special connection with our theme today, which is the beauty of being who we are, which I have no idea exactly where we're going to go with this theme. The thought of it is just so lovely to me because why not celebrate ourselves? And I invited Marcus because of his wonderful energy, and he has, to me, a touching perspective on the crucial role that parenting plays in our collective evolving. How many times have you said or heard someone say I blame the parents? So Marcus is here to help make sure no one has to say that, especially now in our volatile, exciting and challenging world. So, marcus, thank you so much for coming on the show.

Speaker 2: 1:29

It's wonderful to be here, Catherine. Yes, there's no shaming, no blaming, no complaining about parents here, and you know it's interesting, it's the beauty of being who you are. And one thing you didn't tell the listeners is that today is a special day.

Speaker 1: 1:46

Oh yeah, Well, I'm just shy. Okay, you tell them then.

Speaker 2: 1:51

Happy birthday, Catherine, as this is your special day and there's no greater privilege than to be who you are. You've been a light in our few meetings We've had one or two meetings before this and thank you for what you do, where you are lighting up your little corner there and with this podcast. Thank you.

Speaker 1: 2:12

Thank you so much. I will receive that as my first birthday present. Thank you very much, Marcus.

Speaker 2: 2:18

Pre-recorded birthday present.

Speaker 1: 2:20

Yeah, but you know we can live in multiple timelines simultaneously, because that's just how cool we are. So this idea of the beauty of being who we are, Marcus, can you remember your earliest memory of sort of engaging with that idea, of that becoming present for you?

Speaker 2: 2:46

with that idea of that becoming present for you. Wow, I love that. When you asked me could you remember your first memory of? And then when you said of that I remember when I denied, the first memory of, when I denied who I was, wow, and I can share that with you. That's not what you asked for.

Speaker 1: 3:03

No, no, do share that, because if whatever comes up is what you asked for. No, no, do share that, because whatever comes up is what should be shared.

Speaker 2: 3:08

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I feel you. I was in Alabama and I was taking the test for the GATE program, gifted and Talented Education, and it was to go into a higher level, a different stream of students, because they would take off the gifted children and you had to be recommended to the program and then you would take a test.

Speaker 1: 3:32

Wow.

Speaker 2: 3:34

And I remember taking the test and I was asked where does paper come from? And I said from the store. And also, where does milk come from? And I said from the store. And also, where does milk come from? And I said from the store. And I remember answering the questions less than my ability because I didn't want to go up, so I was purposely getting them wrong.

Speaker 1: 4:01

Why didn't you want to go out? Why didn't you want to go out?

Speaker 2: 4:04

I think. I think I didn't, I didn't want more expected of me and it was. I remember the moment in my head. I'm just like oh, this is a silly question. Of course it comes from trees and of course it comes from cows. But let me just quote unquote play dumb, you know. Let me just stay in the background so that I don't have to live into more of what's asked of me. And that's interesting. I've, I've, I've seen elements of that throughout my life. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 4:40

And I've actually felt that myself on occasion where I've just gone. Now, you know, just just ease back a little bit right now, don't even put yourself out there, and I've seen other people do.

Speaker 2: 4:56

And you asked why, which is an interesting question, and I'm thinking in my head. Well, they don't need to know Like I know I'm I say worthy of it, I know that I'm capable of it, but they don't know. But if I know, is that enough? And then, am I limiting myself, am I capping myself?

Speaker 1: 5:20

How old were you at that point?

Speaker 2: 5:22

Well, it was before I was seven, because I moved to California when I was seven, so I must have been about five or six.

Speaker 1: 5:33

Well, great to notice something like that at that age Fantastic.

Speaker 2: 5:37

Oh man, For those who are listening, I have an afro, which you mentioned when we first met, and I am a little bit older in age, so I have my salt and pepper here. But with time I realized, yeah, you can't live in the opinions of others and there's no greater beauty than to be beautiful.

Speaker 1: 6:03

So how did that different insight emerge? Can you remember that? Can you remember kind of when that became more present for you and and you felt more ownership of that?

Speaker 2: 6:14

well, I'm a third culture kid what does that mean? No, I don't know what that means yeah, it's my mother's from the bahamas, from the philippines, my father's from the Philippines, my father's from the Bahamas and I grew up in California, and how it's described sometimes is where your culture, where you grew up, doesn't necessarily match your passport or the culture you identify with.

Speaker 1: 6:39

This sounds to me like some music playing in the background. It's a little bit distracting.

Speaker 2: 6:44

Yes, it is. Yes, it is. Yes, it is my father's phone. Thank you, I didn't know you could hear that. Thank you, thank you.

Speaker 1: 6:56

Yes so you're explaining the third. What do you call it?

Speaker 2: 6:59

Third culture Third culture kid. Oftentimes it's from a multicultural family or a family where kids go to Third culture and that they lean into their identity or they're not sure of who they are.

Speaker 1: 7:24

I see yeah.

Speaker 2: 7:26

So while growing up in Alabama, we would go to Filipino events wearing our barongs and doing Filipino traditional dances. But you know, I'm here, a guy with an Afro doesn't look like traditional Filipino. Growing up in America, I'm Caribbean American, but then I look black American. So I I'm with that. And then when I come to the Bahamas, I have a funny accent I'm wearing glasses. So elements throughout my life it's always been your other, which is not necessarily a bad thing, but I had to learn very quickly to get in where I fit in and also understand who I. Yes, speaking to another podcaster, he's like you know, it's so interesting you're able to have these difficult or tough conversations, as we were talking about just diversity and culture and so on, and I thought, you know I'm comfortable having these conversations because I had to have these conversations at a young age even if I didn't want to.

Speaker 1: 8:24

Yeah, so yeah, that's where it was. At an early age I learned yeah, yeah, yeah, well, I, I, I didn't have that thing, but I did. I did have a different thing, where I was part of the two different cultures at the same time and it was very, very challenging and difficult and there was that temptation to try to make one of them right and the other one wrong, and it wasn't until I realized that you had to make them both right that I was able to actually move forward. Could you tell me about it? Yes, one culture was middle-class, white, southern counties, english okay, yes and the other was very alternative, bohemian natural health, um non-conformist.

Speaker 1: 9:19

so it was like a philosophical difference and it's like the two sides just didn't get the other side at all, but I was both. You have to exist within the culture, don't you? You have to exist with all the other human beings around you. You can't just going to say I'm only ever going to talk to people who are just like me.

Speaker 2: 9:48

Yeah yeah, yeah, that's exactly what it is. You learn to resolve it here, or it creates conflict and it constantly pulls you.

Speaker 1: 9:56

You remember?

Speaker 2: 9:57

George Orwell's short story Shooting an Elephant.

Speaker 1: 10:01

No, I don't remember that one.

Speaker 2: 10:02

Okay, so he was born, I believe, in Burma, but then it was when the British colonies were in India or something or somewhere over there and he didn't like the military yet he was seen as the oppressor. So yeah, you were talking about George Orwell's.

Speaker 1: 10:25

He was in Burma and he was seen as the oppressor. So yeah, you were talking about george orwell's.

Speaker 2: 10:28

He was in burma and he was seen as part of the oppressors yes, and then there was this wild or mad elephant and, um, it was terrorizing the people there and the people came to him saying, hey, you have a gun. Will you shoot this elephant for us? He felt oppressed by the government, the people felt oppressed by him and then now he had to go handle this elephant, who was also seen as a sacred um symbol inside this community, but it was his job to shut it, shoot it down, because it was in, it was in musk or like it was a bull, it was in heat or something like that. And it's just all this conflict of culture is people like us do things like this and it's collective identity and there's just all this tension of identity and like, what does he eventually do? That's, that was the whole conflict of it.

Speaker 2: 11:25

Yeah, and the reason I'm bringing it up is because you know, when you're growing up in different cultures and when you're growing up in different expectations of other people, you make the best decision you can. Yeah, and there's no greater privilege than to be who you are. There's a beauty of being who you are because you'll make that. You'll make that choice and then you'll learn and you'll grow on from there.

Speaker 1: 11:46

Yeah, yeah, yeah, beautiful. And, of course, orwell was so good at what I think, people. I heard someone the other day using a word which was culture scape. Okay he's. I thought, hey, good word. Um, you know, he's very good at painting those culturescapes, isn't he? And within which you can imagine being in that place and how you're challenged by it and what you're going to have to confront in yourself in order to survive or to flourish in that culturescape.

Speaker 2: 12:21

So, yeah, he was a student of being human, and that's what the humanities are. They're teaching us how to be human, and you can only see other people's humanity if you can truly see your own.

Speaker 1: 12:35

Yeah, yeah and accept your own, which is the beauty of being who you are. So that's really interesting, that background thing. And this third culture thing is something I've never heard of before, so that's really interesting to me. And how is that sort of woven into this whole relationship with the beauty of being who you are?

Speaker 2: 13:01

for you sure, um, so I hold two truths at the same time. One is I, I am differentiated from you. But then it's also the other I'm gonna say we thought of. I am you experiencing life from a different perspective? And if I were born into your context that is, your location, your time I would have made all the same decisions you did. That's what that's. You say hope, not. Well, that's the thing, though. Like, like you made it, I believe there's a fullness to you, right, yeah, and that's why there's no judgment in my, in my. So I lead with curiosity and having conversations with you, understanding that, um, yeah, why did you make that decision? Yeah, why did you do that? So then when I say there's no greater well, well, the beauty of being who you are is, then I'm intrigued, and then there's curiosity there, and then it's just life learning about itself yeah yeah, now I say beauty in it.

Speaker 2: 14:21

There's some people who do things that are. But what is beauty? I have an idea, I have a meaning for the word beauty. Let me ask you how would you describe beauty?

Speaker 1: 14:33

Someone else asked me that and I can't remember what I said. So to me, actually, it's something around appreciation of the divine, witnessing the divine in something like a beautiful piece of music or landscape, whatever it is. There's something that's shining out through it that strikes me and that I resonate with, and to me that's the beauty. And that's distinct from where you might look at something and say, well, that's well put together, or that's stylish, or that's distinct from where you might look at something and say, well, that's well put together, or that's stylish, or that's pretty, or that's clever. That doesn't have that same quality to it.

Speaker 2: 15:13

I love that you said that. So two things come to mind. For me is awesomeness? We lose a sense of awe as we grow older. The world doesn't change, it's just our relationship to it. You know, kids are always like, oh, that's awesome, or they're soaking it all in, and then as we grow older, we're just like, oh no, that's commonplace, or I've seen that before, or we have an expectation on it.

Speaker 1: 15:39

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 15:41

The second thing that came to mind is there's this line I say it says true beauty doesn't ask for attention. True confidence doesn't seek validation. So if we say true beauty doesn't ask for attention, it's like what you said something is well put together or in order, or it's arranged in such a way that it pulls your attention and your attention settles with it, because it's pleasing or it gives you some well-being, or it's something worth giving your attention to, which is the most valuable thing you have. Now let's come back to our topic for today. Okay, what is it the beauty of being who you are? That means you're worthy of your own attention. I'm always out there seeking stuff and we're saying I'll be validated when this happens, or I'm not enough in this, or I'll fill myself up with this, and it's like no, no, no. The beauty of being who you are, yeah, yeah, yeah, right, bring your attention right back.

Speaker 1: 16:47

So worthy of of your own attention. Worthy of your own attention, that's.

Speaker 2: 16:56

I like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Beautiful. Too often times, man, yeah, too often times we're looking outside of ourselves for for the fullness. When the fullness is with us or it's, we are the universe experiencing itself. So yeah, it's in both places fantastic and did.

Speaker 1: 17:16

Did you have any kind of, um, spiritual training or particular, uh, teachers you followed or anything like that? That sort of contributed to you to be, to being really as connected as you are with, with this particular way of seeing things?

Speaker 2: 17:34

I, I laughed because right when you said that, I thought life right, yeah, yeah yeah, it's life.

Speaker 1: 17:39

Okay, it's that little thing, right.

Speaker 2: 17:41

But yeah, um, I, I grew up. I grew up as a christian and sincerely Adventist. If you're familiar, seventh-day Adventist.

Speaker 1: 17:52

I've heard of them. Yeah, In fact, years and years ago, I had my hair in braids for a period of time and I had to go along to this place to have it redone. And it was all these Ghanaian women women. I remember sitting there and I don't know if you've ever had really long braids, but you've got four women standing around you in a circle and they each got hold of a braid and they're pulling on your head really tight in order to do the braid and they're trying to persuade me why I should be a Seventh-day Adventist.

Speaker 1: 18:27

This was to me a terrifying experience, because you do not want to enjoy these women right now, but I did not look any deeper than that it was a memorable experience because I'm very respectful right, but no, I don't know anything about it you know what?

Speaker 2: 18:53

well, hold on. Before we leave off of this, I have to share this story. I was in saudi arabia getting my my beard shaped up and the guy asked me he's from turkey and he said yeah, yeah, so where are you from? And I said, um, I have two passwords, sometimes america, sometimes bahamas. He said america, he was joking and this is what he said. He said so that means I can cut your throat right now and nobody will know what?

Speaker 1: 19:20

I'm sorry, I don't get the logic of that at all he was.

Speaker 2: 19:24

He was in the barber shop with his friends and they did not like americans. All right. So when I said I'm american, he said, oh, so, because he had a blade right here to my throat, right shaking my beard, and said so I could cut your throat right now and nobody would know. I said, well, today I'm bahamian, so so no, good response, very, very cool oh man, we were all laughing.

Speaker 2: 19:48

But I look back at it because I told my friend that and he's just like, no, there are some crazy people like that. And I thought about it. I was like, yeah, in America there are people like that who would do that.

Speaker 1: 19:57

Yeah, Anyhow. Anyway, Seventh-day Adventism which I find hard to say quickly, so that was how you were brought up was it.

Speaker 2: 20:06

Yeah, yes, you were brought up, was it? Or, yeah, yes and um. And when I say sincerely, like I had a prayer life growing up, um, it was never a burden for me and I wasn't the type of person to proselytize and push it on other people, but I had an understanding of, of the divine. I say now greater power, higher forces. Um, I served as a missionary, my mother was a missionary, a medical missionary, so on, right and um. When I went out to korea now that's where I taught as an english teacher of bible classes, I say my understanding expanded and that's why I have nothing against the church or any other spiritual belief. But as I start to understand and have conversations and an awareness of other approaches to life, um, that colored my understanding of life. Yeah, yeah, so I, I would, I would oftentimes sit down.

Speaker 2: 21:22

Yeah, yeah, I don't think one particular organized religion has the understanding of it all.

Speaker 1: 21:31

No.

Speaker 2: 21:33

But I believe there is something greater than us and I love to be with sincere people who, if you believe something, tell me why you believe it. I'm here for your understanding, tell me why you believe it. I'm here for your understanding. And as long as you're in line with well-being, with life, life supports those who support life, I think they're principles of well-being. Yeah, that's what I follow Nowadays Rupert Spear, if you're familiar with him. With who Rupert Spear No're familiar with him?

Speaker 1: 22:11

With who?

Speaker 2: 22:11

Rupert Spira? No, don't know, he's British.

Speaker 1: 22:17

And he speaks of non-dualism, though.

Speaker 2: 22:19

Yeah, I'm in alignment with that also.

Speaker 1: 22:22

Yeah, yeah, beautiful. Well, I really get a sense from that of you sort of finding, weaving your own way through and inquiring and researching as you go and sort of integrating things and finding your own kind of take on it, which is definitely my, you know. Talking to you, my sense of you is that you're sort of very quietly and peacefully sitting there, connected to what you're connected to. You don't need people to approve of it, you're just kind of with it and this is the way it is, which I like. I think that's great. So how on earth did you then transition into becoming a communication coach for parents? How did that happen?

Speaker 2: 23:14

it's because my peace was disquieted by my own father just walked out the out the house. I say that tongue-in-cheek um, you know, there's a little bit of truth in every joke and there's a little joke in every truth. And I told him the other day, like you can't change your past, but you can change how you look at it, yeah, yeah, and I think I am very analytical, very. I think I am the way I am based on my upbringing with him, because he divorced when I was 12. We came to the Bahamas and he's trying to pursue his career, his professional development and so on. I grew up with family, like my aunts and uncles and so on. He's a person who needs to. He doesn't need to do anything. He's a person who needs to. He doesn't need to do anything. He's a person who has his own challenges. We all live in the biggest room, the room for improvement. I think he's the reason why I am very patient. Of course, that wisdom didn't come till I was older to reflect on it.

Speaker 2: 24:26

Yeah, and you know what I say that with the understanding I know where it comes from. So sometimes you see stuff it's just like you can be frustrated at it, but once you get to again lead with curiosity to understand where it comes from, you're more gracious towards it. And now I have the the communication skills of when I can set up boundaries to it or when I can redirect it or when I can help serve him in what he needs. But he doesn't know he needs it or he hasn't communicated.

Speaker 1: 25:05

Communicated it right? Yeah, okay. So so you were responding to, um, something about your own life where you, where you felt there was something you wanted to understand more deeply, so that, so that you could actually navigate better, is, is that a pretty much?

Speaker 2: 25:25

yes and yes and because, uh, as we before, I used to be a teacher or an educator inside the classroom. Yeah, so I worked at grade 12. I worked with grade nine, I worked with fifth graders and while I was having those parent teacher meetings, again with kids who are going to international schools. So they have a multiplicity of backgrounds, multicultural background, yeah, um, I saw a lot of the same conversations. So what is the way that I'm uniquely positioned to serve the world? I love communication. I study journalism, right, um, I love people, and children really are just small people. It's all the same principles of human development and what's the biggest effect on that? It's parents, but it's at this formative age, during adolescence, before social media gets their hooks in them. I'm just understanding how and why to communicate with these, with this particular group, to bring forth their greatness. Yeah, so that's that's why I chose specifically what I do right.

Speaker 1: 26:32

So it sounds like you had a whole number of different strands of your own learning and evolving that you kind of pulled together into this um, but also with your creative outlet of being an inspirational poet as well. Um, I noticed you've got your book back there, words of Wellbeing. If you give me the link for that, I'll put it in the show notes. Words of Wellbeing I mean, who doesn't want that, a copy of a book called Words of Wellbeing?

Speaker 2: 27:00

Inspire life through words of well-being.

Speaker 1: 27:02

Beautiful, inspire life through words of well-being. I mean, who doesn't want that for Christmas?

Speaker 2: 27:08

Seriously, If I may, I'll read something really quick, only 15 seconds. I'd love you to Sure. Sure it's called Divinity is in Our Greetings. What's in the meaning of our greetings between our comings and leavings? Is it the divine in me recognizing itself in you, or is, it more true, the divine in you seeing itself in me? Whichever truth you choose of the two meanings, divine is always, ever present, self-awareness residing in the flowing fullness of both our beings.

Speaker 1: 27:52

Oh, gorgeous thank you.

Speaker 2: 27:58

So you know, like when you say namaste, that means the divine in me greeting you, or when you say adios with god, when you say good morning, it actually comes from god morning. It's just it's found in all these greetings from around the world, but it's. It's yeah, the divine in me recognizing itself in you, or is it more true, the divine in you recognizing itself in me?

Speaker 1: 28:17

yeah, and the answer is yes yeah, go ahead and write your phd on that well, I'll do a podcast on it first.

Speaker 2: 28:28

I'll do a podcast on it first.

Speaker 1: 28:29

You know I meant that just throw that out to the world, not you in particular. Um, I love it. So you've got this great relationship with words, obviously, obviously. Did that come through training in journalism, or is that something that has always evolved for you?

Speaker 2: 28:46

No, it was before journalism. I used to write when I was a teenager, and you know what's funny. So in fifth grade and sixth grade I remember Miss Dutcher. She gave me my first and only F I ever received in my whole life and it was in writing and the thing was like words, they, they would look mixed up on the page for me and I think I had undiagnosed dyslexia because she said, marcus, you have such beautiful thoughts and ideas, but I can't give you a grade for something for work that you didn't turn in. And I wouldn't turn in my work because I knew I had all those errors in it. When I was about 15, there was this documentary on HBO called slam across America and they were on stage doing performance, poetry, slam poetry, and I remember getting this very, very clear feeling.

Speaker 1: 29:53

I want to do that.

Speaker 2: 29:54

And that same night I sat down and I wrote a poem. I remember those poems. Here's one of them. Actually, it's very quick, it's very quick. It's, um, it says where's god? It says hell is not the depths of the bottomless pit of where demons slipped and fell, and no, hell is not the place where misplaced souls are held. Misplaced souls means lost souls. It says hell. It said. It said let's think, um, there is no color black, there is only the dark, which mark which makes me start to think is hell in my heart? There is no coal, there is only the absence of heat which makes me think is hell in my soul? Because hell is not the depths of some bottomless pit of where a demon slipped and fell, and no, hell is not the place where misplaced souls are held. You see, hell is the place. Well, it's any place where god does not dwell nice yeah, um.

Speaker 2: 31:01

So since 15 I've been writing.

Speaker 1: 31:02

That's what it was and when I think when did you start speaking your poetry out?

Speaker 2: 31:07

when did you start, you know, reciting or reading your poetry to other people right way right you know, because there was this venue here I would go to and I would recite it there. Um, this was about maybe 10th or 11th grade and I was. I was like this young kid amongst all these other older guys, but I would speak it out, we would talk out the poems, yeah, and and I think it was a way for me to process the stress. That's what coping is and I think that was given to me at a young age how to process. So I would have conversations with myself, I would have conversations with the divine, and then I would process all my thoughts through words, through poetry.

Speaker 1: 31:53

Great, wonderful, yeah, yeah. So how does this? How do you now you know, when you're working with your, with parents and you're helping them with pre-teens, um, would you like to share with us a little bit about how you come at that work?

Speaker 2: 32:12

you know how do you kind of approach it sure, um, I approach it with in, in a very simple sense, narrative theory. So, having traveled around the world and I taught stories or storytelling around the world, it's very for me. That's how I look at life. There's a character, a protagonist, protagonist that has a desire, and there's something challenging them, stopping them from getting that desire. All right, um then, man, so many ways to come at this, but I I help the parent, as an audience member, see what this character wants. Why do they want it?

Speaker 2: 33:01

and this character doesn't even know about itself yet this character is coming into an understanding of what these desires are. But if you study human development enough, you start to see patterns. Yeah, it's like, oh yeah, this happens at this stage, where this happens at this time. Yeah, then you look at the what's happening in the environment that's changing the outward conflict, and then, um, how does that look? Well, when you think about it, a lot of our stressors come from miscommunication or misunderstanding. Yeah, so if we get to understand why each character has those desires and what are their motives, we can then start to become the author of those stories or directing them more so.

Speaker 2: 33:49

And one communication teacher told me she said you know, the quality of our life is directly related to the quality of our communication. Yeah, communication, yeah, um, if you understand, there's noise, and then you're, you're looking to refine that, to say, okay, where's what am I not understanding? Or what are we, what are we working towards? What is the purpose of this? It has critical thinking and communication in there. Yeah and um, then my job is to help parents, or give them perspective in a very simple sense, give them perspective to help them communicate better in their relationship yeah, and does that also help them understand their children better?

Speaker 2: 34:33

more, so it helps them understand themselves better, right?

Speaker 1: 34:37

I think that's what children are for I see what you mean, okay, so when they, when they're looking at the story, they're understanding the protagonist in the story and through that they're understanding themselves better, which then helps them communicate better with their children? Well, not quite.

Speaker 2: 35:02

I'll say it like this Okay, what is the reason? We read stories? Anyhow? Right, we read stories to learn about what it means to be human. Yes, and when you're reading a story, the story really opens up when it's relevant, and you ask yourself how am I like that? What can I take away from this?

Speaker 1: 35:24

Yeah, right.

Speaker 2: 35:27

Yes, yeah so.

Speaker 1: 35:30

So how does that, Again it's. How does that feed then into how they are then communicating with their children?

Speaker 2: 35:40

Sure, yeah, yeah. So. So, as we said, um, it helps them understand themselves better. Because that's the work I do. Do I help the parent put on their oxygen mask first, so that they're regulated, so that they understand what to expect of this person who's not regulated. Not regulated, let's say ups and up and down, fluctuating, figuring out, going through their transition. They're pre regulated, let's say ups and down, fluctuating, figuring out going through their transition.

Speaker 1: 36:00

They're pre-regulated.

Speaker 2: 36:04

Pre-regulated. You know what it is. When you think regulated, it means with rules, having some consistency. Yeah, whenever we're going through transitions, it's when we're thrown off. Through transitions, it's when we're thrown off and what society does is they're those who are thrown off, and they're people who are more firm. Yeah, and that tension arises when those who are more firm are trying to create firmness in these people and the other ones yes and this is, this is this is how development happens, how growth happens.

Speaker 1: 36:41

Okay okay, okay right, so by them becoming more regulated, it's easier for them to understand the child who is less regulated and easier for them to help the child become more regulated.

Speaker 2: 36:59

Well, they have more influence over their child than I do? Yeah, well, they have more influence over their child than I do. Yeah, um, and, and you know what, in, in what I do, I encourage them to create a pot of parents, because we were meant to parent in community yes and like what is? What is the role of a parent?

Speaker 1: 37:22

The etymology of parent means to bring forth Right.

Speaker 2: 37:25

So we're trying to create the environment so that this child can express themselves. And as they're expressing themselves and as they're experiencing the world, we're having conversations with them to help it make sense to them, for them to understand what it is Now. Mind you, this is the first transition of life, the big transition of life.

Speaker 1: 37:49

So if you could do it at this stage, it sets the tone for the rest of life, absolutely, and also presumably then creates a much more fertile relationship, because I think anyone, people who have a really strong relationship with their parent or parents that's an extraordinary asset throughout life, isn't it? It's a remarkable thing to have there. I remember when my father passed away, I was in my 30s or something and I didn't talk to him all that often or see him all that often. I was off living my life. But I definitely noticed that then, apart from the grieving, aside from the grieving, there was that sense of there's a particular relationship or connection or resource. Relationship or connection or resource, if you like, that I don't have any, at least corporeally, you know it's, at least in terms of you can actually go and sit in the room together, um it, and that it was noticeable. You know, just just knowing he was there really made a difference. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 39:01

Thank you for sharing that. Yeah, let me explain to you like a sensation I had when my mother passed and let me see if it resonates with you. But, like what you're saying is, there was one person who knew your story just a little bit less than you did, or even knew you before you knew yourself, and there was a chapter of which you could compare it to and you have old past stories and interweavings and then a moment, it's just that part of the story is gone. Now you can't go back and refer back to it.

Speaker 1: 39:39

That's right. Yeah, and also that, and that energy of support and encouragement which, in a way, only a parent can provide. There's a certain thing that only a parent can provide, or a parental figure. I think parental figures also do that, don't they? Um, I'm just reminded of a conversation I had with somebody once who was saying he was early 31 years old I think at the time and he was just about to get married, and I said how about children? And he said well, I just need to finish off what I need to do in my life and learning about developing, learning about, you know, developing myself, et cetera, before I have children. And I said, well, a, that could make you the most boring parent in the world. B, you're going to do a lot of learning after you've had the children.

Speaker 2: 40:36

Yes.

Speaker 1: 40:36

And they need you to be doing that right.

Speaker 2: 40:39

Yeah, that's what it is. They accelerated, they're gone.

Speaker 1: 40:43

Yeah, he had this idea that you'd have the children after you've got everything else sorted out. You know everything, so you don't have to change anymore, you don't have to grow anymore, you know there's plenty of money for everything, etc. You. But you can virtually retire, you know, and then just sit there with your children and they're like do you not have a life? And I responded to him and he said you know, I've never looked at it that way, catherine. I think I might have a conversation with my wife tonight and rethink this.

Speaker 2: 41:15

Oh man, anything about children. They're going to throw you off from that real quick.

Speaker 1: 41:22

Absolutely, yeah, yeah, so you're really working with the parents to help them understand themselves a lot, lot better, which then equips them to then work.

Speaker 2: 41:36

I would say that that's my philosophy of of parenting and of life. There's this thing called conscious parenting, but it's like anything in life.

Speaker 2: 41:47

My philosophy of life is not the thing, it's how we respond yeah yeah, I, I hope you're okay with me sharing this, but what am I gonna say now? But when you came on, you're okay with me sharing this, but what am I going to say now? But when you came on, you're just like, wow, you don't look like what I thought your picture was, and then I could have chosen to be offended or I could have been a chose, or I could have chosen to take it grace. And it wasn't given. It was given in a, in a very. It was given in a neutral spirit of just truth.

Speaker 1: 42:19

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 42:23

Yeah, and, and, and, and, and. I love that and and. Yeah, the moment, the moment was a beautiful moment, but my point being it's not the thing that happens, it's how we choose to respond to.

Speaker 1: 42:31

Absolutely, absolutely yeah, and the same with children right, it's not the children, but it's how we choose to respond. Absolutely beautiful. Well, I personally think it's great you know that you and no doubt other people are working with parents of pre-teens, because that is such a generative phase in the life, such a generative phase and and I can remember when I was a child, a lot of people thought that children only became interesting once they went past the age of 10 or something. Up till then, you just had to keep them clean and fed and get them to school. That was just it. You tried to make sure they don't kill themselves doing something stupid because they weren't really interesting, they weren't really people yet until they became sort of 10 or something. I mean, it wasn't like that in my household at all, but in many other households it was like that, which was a shame, I thought.

Speaker 2: 43:34

Did you grow up more upon your hippie side, or was it more of your country girl side, or it was both.

Speaker 1: 43:39

Well, my parents were like pre-hippie before hippie side, or was it more of your country girl side, or it was both. Well, my parents were like pre-hippie before hippie. It was what was called sort of bohemian, which sort of european thing, um and um. So my parents were both highly alternative. She came from an aristocratic family, he came from a very, um, working class family and they both went I'm off and left and met in the middle which was also another very, very interesting thing in the background growing up with that, you know like, which is it's a you know kind of, but, um, yeah, so he was talking to us about philosophical principles and things like that as soon as we could talk, yeah, and we're going, well, I'm five, and he's saying what's your point?

Speaker 2: 44:34

well, I think all topics can be discussed, but age appropriate, age appropriate.

Speaker 1: 44:40

Nothing that you would say, should you know, would be censored on YouTube. It was all.

Speaker 2: 44:45

Oh, no, no, no, no. When I say age appropriate, I mean I'm going to tell you about the laws of life, but I may not necessarily speak about you. Know this word and that word and it's like to a five-year-old. If you can explain it to a five-year-old, you really know what you're talking about.

Speaker 1: 44:59

Absolutely Well, there was always a dictionary handy, yeah, but amazing. Well, I love what you're doing and tell me a bit about these workshops that you're doing, because I'm just going to say, because I forgot to say at the beginning listeners, if you want to find Marcus, go to MarcusHiggscom, where you'll find everything about him, but there's also, well, not everything about him, because you know he's, but as much as you can put on a website. But also, if you want to know his workshops, which I'm just going to ask you about, it's workshopsmarcushiggscom.

Speaker 2: 45:38

So Marcus, please tell us a bit about these workshops you're doing. The workshops that I'm doing are one of them. The main one is 14 Conversations to have Before 14. And that's actually a book by Michelle Eckert I'm just going through her work but she speaks about understanding your child at this stage of life and how to converse with them in regards to sexual things, in regards to reputation, regards to making friends. It's all the challenges that kids have at this stage and oftentimes kids they don't know who to talk to or they don't know they don't, they don't feel comfortable talking, they feel awkward because it's the first time entering into it. Yeah, I always say it's only awkward if you make it. Just like your father he wanted to have those conversations. You're like, but I'm fine. He's like and but um. With the workshops it's, it's communication, um, training to speak with kids to specifically build trust. As you have conversations, you build trust with people over time and you're doing it before they enter into the throes of social media and so on right, right, those sound fantastic.

Speaker 1: 47:03

14 stories before 14. That's just one of the workshops, and you've got a whole series of other ones. I um.

Speaker 2: 47:09

Two other ones are there, which is um establishing a family culture of virtue spotting yeah, nice yeah, it means looking for the good in other people, specifically in your family, and creating a ritual around that lovely yeah, and.

Speaker 2: 47:29

And the third one is, um, creating a oh, creating a digital plan as a family, because, again, technology is a big part of our world today. But then, being intentional on saying, okay, how are we going to use technology? That's the first one, and then the second part is what activities are we going to do to get outside the house and get in contact with nature, and so on and with each?

Speaker 1: 47:57

other, fantastic. I think that's great, wonderful, wonderful. Oh well, I mean, I could talk to you forever about all this stuff you're doing, marcus, and your background is just so interesting, your story is so interesting to me. But I'm going to switch slightly to a conversation I want to ask you in relationship to leaders in the world today.

Speaker 1: 48:18

So there's all sorts of things going on in the world at the moment, and everyone's got their own opinion about what is happening, what should be happening, who's wrong, who's right, who should be doing, what, what should be done. And against that whole backdrop of it, there are a lot of people in actual formal leadership positions and also a lot of people in actual formal leadership positions, and also a lot of people trying to be better leaders in their own lives, and that includes, of course, parents. And some of these people are listening to this podcast right now, because Truth and Transcendence tends to draw those sorts of people to come and listen, because it's inviting them to reflect and find the wisdom within right. So is there something that you would like to say to those people right now? I mean, there's so many things I know you could say, but is there something you'd like to say to them right now?

Speaker 2: 49:18

Oh, there are many things to say, but today we said the beauty of being who you are. I'm gonna go through three quotes. Is that okay?

Speaker 2: 49:29

yeah so there's a quote from a irish poet named john donahue, and he well, first of all, there's no greater privilege than to be who you are. There's no greater privilege than to be who you are. The quote John Donahue used to say is the duty of privilege is absolute integrity. So if you have a certain special rules for you, you have to keep your stuff together. That's what leaders, leaders are given a sense of privilege. The duty of privilege is absolute integrity. And the third quote is and when your story is told, let them know it is a privilege to hear.

Speaker 1: 50:14

Thank you, wonderful. I love those. Each one of those could be reflected on deeply for quite some time. Thank you, wonderful. And then the next question I always like to ask my guests as we start coming towards the end is has there been a favorite part of our conversation today for you?

Speaker 2: 50:39

a favorite part of our conversation today for you learning about you, knowing about you honestly. Yes, I always feel I know about me, but when I sit across from another person, it's um knowing your upbringings and then the more of an understanding of who's sitting in front of me and then um that, that was.

Speaker 1: 50:56

That was my favorite part of the conversation, definitely great well, thank you, so perhaps a bit of my story was told today, as well as yours, as as part of our conversation. Thank you very much indeed, and would you just like to remind people where they can find you?

Speaker 2: 51:15

sure mar MarcusHiggscom or workshops at MarcusHiggscom. And if you want to find me on socials, I hang out on LinkedIn and that's where I am.

Speaker 1: 51:25

Fantastic. Well, this has been such a great conversation. I'm going to invite you with one more thing now, which is everyone listening is going to go off into their day now and off into their week. Is there some sort of reflection question or closing comment that you'd like to leave them with that they can kind of play around with and explore over the coming week?

Speaker 2: 51:52

Yeah, yeah, okay, here goes one. All the wisdom you'll ever need is already with you and where you're going to find it is speaking to your future self. Future is brighter than your current present that there's an understanding changing you're going to step into. Have that conversation with your future self. They know you best, so it's the most relevant conversation you'll have. Step into their emotions, present your problems to them and ask them how did you make it through? Or what is it that you need to be present with and then understand. You can only take action in the present. You can talk to your future self. They can give you a perception and understanding, stories and beliefs, but you can only take action in the present.

Speaker 1: 52:56

Beautiful. Thank you, Marcus. This has been a wonderful conversation and thank you, listeners, for listening to Marcus Hicks. Have a beautiful, beautiful day. Thank you for listening to Truth and Transcendence and thank you for supporting the show by rating, reviewing, subscribing, buying me a coffee and telling a friend. If you'd like to know more about my work, you can find out about Transformational Coaching, Pellewa and the Freedom of Spirit workshop on beingspaceworld. Have a wonderful week and I'll see you next time.