Ep138: Jim Marshall ~ Transcending Ordinary Understanding With Septemics

Unlock the secrets to maximising human potential with polymath Jim Marshall as he takes you on an enlightening journey through the philosophical system of Septemics. His unique perspective, shaped by a transition from engineering to studying the depths of human behaviour, provides a transformative approach to understanding ourselves and accelerating our unfolding in all areas of life.

This episode is an exploration of not just the theoretical, but the immensely practical applications of Septemics. We discuss the power of Jim's 35 intricate scales to gauge personal development, relationship dynamics, and more. Learn how this nuanced framework can guide you to remarkable self-awareness and improvement. My conversation with Jim traverses from personal stories to historical figures, underscoring the importance of recognising diverse skills and traits that can profoundly shape both our personal and professional worlds.

As the spring of 2024 unfolds, a time traditionally associated with growth and new beginnings, embrace the concept of Septemix. With its seven rays representing different aspects of life, it stands as a foundational spectrum for self-reflection and advancement. Jim's insights and the Septemics system offer listeners a unique lens to review progress and set meaningful life goals. Tune in for an episode that promises to enrich your understanding of the self, and equip you with a compass for navigating the complexities of life in all its manifestations.

Where to find Jim and Septemics:
https://Septemics.com

Buy 'Septemics' here:
https://www.amazon.com/Septemics-Hierarchies-Phenomena-Prediction-Management/dp/166551244X/
https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=septemics&ref=nb_sb_noss

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:02

Truth and Transcendence, brought to you by BeingSpace with Catherine Llewellyn. Truth and Transcendence, episode 138, with special guest Jim Marshall. Now, if you haven't come across Jim, he's a polymathic intellectual who has devoted over 50,000 hours to the study and practice of multiple dimensions of human potential and development. He received a classical education as an honours student at the Jesuit Military Prep School, was accepted into engineering school while still a junior in prep school and attended college on academic scholarship. Jim graduated college with a Bachelor of Science cum laude and while still an undergraduate he began the study of quote alternative arts and sciences, which today would be described as transformational and holistic. So you can see why I immediately was interested in talking to Jim. Eventually he became a professional practitioner and, after 28 years of formal education, had a long career as a human development engineer. Jim has integrated the best aspects of the most advanced techniques on the planet and expanded their limits by his own research and discovery. He has successfully treated and or trained hundreds of clients over a 40 year career and is the inventor of septemics and several consciousness expanding systems. The Jim's areas of expertise include psychology, philosophy, theology, parapsychology, science, engineering, mathematics, law, literature, history, music, organisation, metaphysics, military science, political science, physical culture and education Wow. And Jim's revolutionary practical philosophic system, septemics, is showcased in his best selling book Septemics Hierarchies of Human Phenomena. So I think we can see about eight reasons why I would invite Jim onto the podcast. And amongst all of that. But actually I think Jim is genuinely a fascinating man with so much to share in multiple areas, and I deeply respect his commitment to intensive inquiry and exploration, all in the name of the vetament of man. So, jim, thank you so much for coming on the show. Thank you, catherine, we're glad to be here. Excellent.

Speaker 1: 2:48

So when we met in the prequel we talked about there's so many things that we could talk about for many hours, no doubt, but we've only got an hour and an hour and a half or something like that. So we actually honed in on what you might call the unexplainable or the mystery, and that's something Jim and I are going to talk about today. And also, of course, I'm going to ask Jim to share about Septemics, because it's a very powerful body of work that he's created. So that's what we're going to be talking about, and I personally think that what you call the unexplainable or the mystery to me is in many ways more important than that which we think can be explained.

Speaker 1: 3:35

It's an absolutely vital part of human reality that we don't understand everything and some things cannot be explained. So looking into that, I think, in-depth is terribly, terribly important. So, jim, if I can start with my favorite first question, which is thinking about the unexplainable and the mystery, are you somebody who's always, always been interested in that, or was this something that you kind of began to take an interest in at some point in your life that you can recall?

Speaker 2: 4:12

The former. I have absolutely no memory of a time when I was not intensely interested in learning everything taught in every university. I was just born that way, wow. I started school when I was three and I'd been involved in education one way or another to the current my entire life, and it just continues. You know, I'm just insatiably curious about any serious subject. Wow.

Speaker 2: 4:49

And I should say just one sentence because this sort of ties into what you talked about. I am the dispellerer of hitherto unknown natural phenomena which greatly aid in the understanding of people, from which I created a revolutionary practical philosophical system called Septemax and published it in the book Septemax Hierarchies of Human Phenomenon. Yeah, Right.

Speaker 1: 5:17

So when you say hitherto unknown natural processes or phenomena, what did you do to actually discover those? How did you do that?

Speaker 2: 5:33

Okay. Well, the story really started, I think, when I was accepted into engineering school at the age of 16. Now, of course, I thought, like all the other engineering schools, that I would be engineering physical things like electrons, chemicals, airfoils, motors. But by the time I had my bachelor's degree, it was clear that I wanted to engineer nothing physical, but rather the human psyche, because that is the area of greatest mystery, of greatest unknown and, more significantly, the area in which we as a race are failing miserably. 95% of the problems in industrialized society are because people don't understand. People don't understand the wife, don't understand the mother, don't understand the son, don't understand the boss, don't understand somebody who's running for all. That's why we're getting into our understory relationships, that's why we hook up with people who wind up absconding with money. That's why we elect idiots to political position. It's all because we don't understand people, and this book resolves that issue.

Speaker 1: 6:49

Right and you say because we don't understand people, do you include in that understanding ourselves? Oh sure, so were you always? It sounds like you were. When you said at the beginning that you wanted to learn everything that's on offer in every university, that statement could be interpreted to mean that you wanted to learn the information that's already there, but then you went on to say that you were really interested in discovering these phenomena that were hitherto unknown. So it sounds like you had a kind of dual channel of interest. You know the what's already known and the what's not yet known.

Speaker 1: 7:28

Is that fair to say?

Speaker 2: 7:31

Let me answer it this way. I mean, the short answer is yes, but by the time, really, I graduated prep school, I was already an intellectual and I was so well educated that I had a pretty good idea what was in the mainstream. I was a very serious student, and this only continued when I got into college. Now, by the time I got out of I got out of my bachelor's degree, I knew the mainstream Right, but there were gaping holes, huge gaping holes. What's in the Twilight Zone, you know. So that's why I decided to become a human development engineer.

Speaker 1: 8:29

I see.

Speaker 2: 8:30

Okay, and so I worked one on one with hundreds of clients of every description for cumulatively many thousands of hours. As I was doing it, I started to notice, just incidentally, that I could predict outcome of the session. That's to say, all of my clients improve as a result of our work together, but I would actually know specifically what that improvement would be. Now, I never told this to anyone, but I made notes, and as the decades rolled by, this just happened more and more and I made more notes. This, of course, only made me better at what I did. Yeah, so the results just got better and better, and I came to realize that the client would be at a specific level, on a specific scale that I had previously observed. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 9:32

All of this was done empirically. There was no theory of satemics, so satemics just fell out in front of me. As a result of my work. I understood you, but because of my polymathic credentials I was able to see it for what it was by 1995,. A couple of things happened.

Speaker 2: 9:54

One day I was pondering a difficult client and I realized that this client was at a level that I had not previously observed. Now I had a six level scale that by then I absolutely knew axiomatically was correct. And then, when I found the seventh level, it was obvious to me where to insert it. And when I inserted it, that scale manifested mathematically. All of these data jumped out at me. This is what mathematics is for.

Speaker 2: 10:34

A whole idea is you start with a formula or an equation and you cope data out of it. That is how Einstein found E equals MC squared. So I found that the scale had mathematics embedded in it. Yeah, lots of it. I say, whoa, I don't know what this says, but whatever it is, it's natural law, because anything that has mathematics embedded in it, like for example the Fibonacci sequence, yes, natural law. Yeah. So then I thought, wait a minute, I wonder how many of these other scales, if I have are also seven-level scale because of this experience that I had with mathematics jumping out at me but haven't been developed all the way because I wasn't developing anything. I was just helping my clients in making notes, yeah, so, knowing what I was looking for, I inspected these other scales are about 32 for about that time. In a short period of time, each of them went to seven levels and, as it did, it manifested mathematically. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 11:56

So I now had this whole body of data and I said wait a minute, this is a separate subject. I found something here. Then my next thought was I could go for helping people by the hundred, which is what I had been doing as human development engineer. You're helping people by the million. If I put this in a book, you can get it out, yeah, I said. Well, I have to write it.

Speaker 2: 12:22

So the first draft was completed in December of 1995, and I sent it in transcript form to colleagues of mine, all of who had graduate degrees in a variety of subjects. They all responded very positively. They had different responses, but distinctly positive response. That told me okay, this is exactly what I think it is. This is a new subject that could really help people. So I spent the next 25 years working on this book Because you have to realize, first I hadn't discovered the actual septemic phenomena, which was largely done by 95, as I had explained, although I did find three more skills while I was writing the book. Then I had to take this data and I had to use it to craft a workable system. They helped me understand. I am a died-in-the-wool engineer. I have the personality and the mind of an engineer, so as an engineer, I'm only interested in results and facts. To engineering opinions and beliefs are utterly irrelevant. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 13:42

So I had this hurdle. I had to make something that would actually work all the time for everybody. That took 20 years Wow.

Speaker 1: 13:53

But that's dedication, that's dedication, that's how.

Speaker 2: 13:57

I am. So, then, the most time-consuming aspect of this was expressing this in a way that would make sense to the average reader. Yeah. I know I succeeded at that because since the first draft of this came out in 95, almost 28 years have gone by, and so I've been seeing the results for 28 years. People reading this and getting it. You don't have to be a college graduate to get this. So that was the result of my bending over backwards to make this comprehensible. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 14:43

So that was very time-consuming and if you read the book you'll see there are a lot of things in it that make it easy to understand the way I wrote it and the structure of it. So not sort of how I got it. So all of this was about discovery. It was about finding, resolving unknowns, discovering new things, because you have to see, as a human development engineer, every session that I did I discovered something. I would see these phenomena and I would note them down and then I would use them again, and so all of this was verified by this scientific rigor of seeing it work. Again and again I had thousands and thousands of incidents where the client, I would spot him at a certain level, we'd work together and he would go right up to the next. So it was verified. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 15:50

That is what made me realize OK, this is whatever. This is, it's big and I have to share this to people.

Speaker 1: 15:58

Yeah, so you road tested it as you went. I actually think that the most powerful systems are developed in that way in terms of observation of what's actually happening. Thank you, fascinating. I'd like to just ask you to see if you could explain something, which is when you said I can't remember the exact words, but you said that when you, when you examined it, that the mathematical aspect of it was like coming out to you. Right, yes.

Speaker 1: 16:33

Now I think a lot of people would think what on earth does he mean by that? So are you able to explain that a little bit more? Yeah, the layperson, the non polymath in the room. Yes, like myself.

Speaker 2: 16:46

So, first of all, there is a section in the introduction to my book called why Seven. Obviously that's mathematical. The explanation is mathematical. The next thing I want to say to lay any concerns is that I went out of my way to not present this material in a mathematical way so that people who don't know mathematics or don't like mathematics would not be prevented from getting it. Yeah, so the experience you have when you read this book is not that you're studying math or science. It's more like you put on your eyeglasses and you can look in the mirror and you say, oh, I see, that's what's going on. Or you look, you put on your glasses and you look at another person. So each of these 35 scales is a lens that you can hold up to reality and see it like Sherlock Holmes would with his magnifying glass and see it in detail. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 17:56

And then, when you understand what's going on, you're empowered to analyze it and consequently, predict what's going to happen and consequently, from that, manage your affair.

Speaker 1: 18:12

OK, so you're not taking people through the kind of alchemical process or whatever it is that you went through in order to develop the system. It sounds like what you did was you discovered this information through, as you say, empirical observation over an extended period and you then spent another 20 years finding a way of articulating it so that people could understand it and use it. So no doubt you went through a very kind of multi-layered process to do that, I imagine. Are you able to share anything about what it was like for you going through that whole process?

Speaker 2: 18:58

Well, hardly enough. You're the first person who's asked me that. You know I am. I used to think of myself as a polymathic scholar, although at this point it's more accurate to say I'm a polymathic intellectual and what it means to be a polymathic scholar is that you're not only interested in your area of expertise, you're interested in everything. So, as an example, I would learn the three laws of Lawson and the antalcule, which was also discovered by Newton, right? And then I would want to know who is this by Newton? How did he figure this out at age 25? And then I would wind up studying him. Well then you get into a whole world of psychology. You know who this man is, and that sort of thing happened to me continuously.

Speaker 2: 20:00

So I was always seeing other subjects coming in on whatever I was studying. So, for example, I took 26 semesters of math, loved every minute of it, and so I'd see math everywhere I looked. So you know, I discovered when I was a teenager that I had to have separate groups of friends, because I had one group of friends with whom I would attend poetry readings and plays, another group of friends with whom I would attend science and math lectures. Another group of friends with whom I would play sports and so forth and so on. Yeah, and group of friends who I would play music, and none of these people liked one another, didn't want to know one another, they didn't want to talk to one another, but I got along with all of them, I just had to keep them separate. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 21:01

So that was like my inherently polymathic personality coming out. You know, I belong to the math club in my school. Our idea of fun was getting together once a week and doing math. We're doing something beyond what was in the class, you know, was really getting into college levels. Well, I was the only guy in the football team in the math club, yeah, so I'm sure that all these guys in the math club were guys with glasses. I didn't wear glasses with glasses no skinny guys, you know. So they probably looked at me as a muscle bound guy. I said what's this guy? Doing in here.

Speaker 2: 21:43

Yeah, how do you get in here? What is the mistake? So, you know, that sort of happened a lot, you know. Or I would talk to somebody on the football team about physics and they would just give me a blank stare.

Speaker 2: 22:04

I can still remember the exact moment at which, at age 10, I found out that there were some children who did not like school. That was a real eye-opener to me. That was a shock. You mean, there are kids who don't like school. How can that be? Yeah, I love school. That's why I went to school for 28 years. Yes, so yeah, I remember we were doing law division on the blackboard and somehow the kid I was working with you know we were in teams mentioned something that, since you have to be in the lecture, I said, wait a minute. You mean you don't like school. He said, no, I don't like school. Wow. And then, of course, I realized most kids didn't like school, if they got that concept into my head. So that was, you know, part of being a weirdo. But I was only weird to people in contexts. In other words, when I would play sports with people, guys would get mediocre. You know, I could still hit the ball on the fan. Well, they accepted me. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 23:27

So you know, that was sort of how my life went.

Speaker 1: 23:30

Right, so you were showing up in all these different contexts, right?

Speaker 2: 23:35

And all these things bled over into other things for me. So that eventually in my mind, all those subjects that you cited, that I have, at least in my mind, that's all one big thing. Yeah. Now, of course, when I was studying mathematics in prep school, you know, mathematics was just mathematics, but eventually it invaded my whole mind, so I saw it in everything. Yeah. And that pretty much happened with every you know like history. I know a lot of history, but to me history pervades everything. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 24:19

So that's how I was able to see this for what it was.

Speaker 1: 24:25

And when, fascinating, and when I was one of those people who was really surprised to discover that some children actually liked school. I was in the other group. I was doing it, you know, because I had to, but very, very different. You know I was more interested in learning through socialising and reading fantasy stuff. You know a completely different path of learning and growth from the one you describe. Right, you know, and I, of course, as a child, I probably would have thought you were a nerd and you probably would have thought I was flaky or something. But now at this point, I can listen to what you're saying and appreciate it. You know, find it interesting and revealing and informative. So I think that's another thing that happens, isn't it? As we go through life, we have different ways of relating with the fact that other people are very different from us sometimes.

Speaker 2: 25:24

Yes, well, you know, I don't think I presented as a nerd at all. I mean, I was an athlete, I was a musician, I went out with girls and I was really in many ways, not a nerd in any way that makes sense to people, but it's just that I was insatiably curious and I was just a very good student. Yeah. And my when I, by the time I get out of college, the thing that I knew best was how to learn, or you might say how to study. It's kind of I'm not sure.

Speaker 1: 26:10

I think how to learn is a bigger thing than how to study. Well, you know. But I mean this is it sounds like you were very, very engaged with all those things, whereas perhaps a lot of people, when they're younger, can't focus, for example. Yes.

Speaker 1: 26:26

Even if they think something's interesting they're sort of obsessed with, does that person like me and they get distracted Right or wanting to go off and bunk off and do something else. So you were, yeah, In the way you describe it. You don't sound like you were one of those sort of lonely, disconnected kids who always got their head in a book. It sounds like you had quite a range. In fact, it sounds quite fun the way you describe it.

Speaker 2: 26:54

It was. It was fun. It's still fun. It's just exhausting. You know, there was never a time when I didn't do my homework Never, okay, in fact, I was the guy who always did the extra credit project. It's Okay On top of it, but what would happen is I would go home from school, I would immediately do my homework and I was immediately out playing sport or meeting girl or playing in a band or all these other things that I did, you know, because I could learn things. Well see, I used to have a photographic memory. As I aged. It's sort of like everyone's memory starts to deteriorate after about 50. Right, so it's sort of there's only like bits and pieces, but I used to be able to. When I would take a test, the teacher would ask me you know a question via the test, right? And I would just open up the book in my mind to that page and copy the answer out of the book onto the page. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 28:08

So it would be exactly right. So you know, that was just a very natural studying was very natural to me, and it still is. Yeah, and I'm still very curious about everything. And that led me to finding Septimax, which is really a boon to mankind, to the extent that people take advantage. But let me tell you what Septimax is, because I'm sure people are saying what is this thing that he's talking about? So Septimax is a philosophical science based on the fact that many phenomena related to human beings occur in a sequence of heaven level. Literally, the words Septimax means both were pertaining to seven.

Speaker 2: 29:00

September comprises a collection of scales or hierarchies, each of which breaks down various human phenomena into a hierarchy of seven steps. There are 35 set scales, each of which is unique, and between them they span the spectrum of human experience, by which I mean any problem, difficulty, dilemma, situation, conundrum that any person has can successfully be analyzed by one or more of these scales, usually more than one. So let me give you an example of how you would use this. It's very practical. You have to understand. I went to an engineering school. We had our own building. There were 2,000 students. We were all very much alike. I know what engineers alike, were very practical people, not woo-woo-woo at all.

Speaker 2: 30:02

Okay, so here's how it is. Let's say you have a girlfriend who's having a romance problem Very common problem, right? You have this girlfriend, betty, who keeps complaining to you I don't know what I'm going to do, husband, he's driving me crazy, we might get a divorce, blah, blah, blah, blah. So you say, all right, betty, come up, let me show you something. And you open up the book to the scale of relationships and you show it to her. Now she will look at it and she will probably say you mean, there's a scale of relationships? And you say, yeah, there, it is this relationship that you've been complaining to me about for the last year. Where is it on this scale? And what will happen is in a matter of seconds.

Speaker 2: 30:54

She will find a bracket. She will say, well, just the first plush. I can see it's definitely not one, two or three, because we're having a lot of trouble. And I can also see it's not seven. That has nothing to do with us. So it's going to be either four, five or six. And you say, okay, see, that's progress. She's just threw out four possibilities. And you say, okay, why don't you read the chapter and you can get this exactly. She's going to want to do that because you're opening a door for her.

Speaker 2: 31:29

So she reads the chapter and you might help her the way to do it with somebody, to understand it, and then have her go back and say, okay, now look at it again, this relationship that you're in, where is it? And she will find it. She will say, well, now that I've read this, I can see we were at level five. No one are having trouble, that's not so good, it's way down there. Okay, and she will definitely have a realization. Yeah, because I already know from 28 years of observation anytime anyone correctly finds a level, whether it's his own level or someone else's level, he has some kind of epiphany. He says, oh, that's why I can't get along with Joe. He's bopity, bopity, bop and I'm this, this, this. That always happens. That's how you know you found the right level. If the person does not have that, he found it wrongly. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 32:37

Yeah, okay, and then once someone's found that level, is there then guidance on ways to explore shifting?

Speaker 2: 32:48

Yes, yes, there's a whole section in the introduction on how to use this to improve yourself and another whole section on how to use this to improve the techniques. Now let me finish my example, because after she has this realization about the scale of relationships, then you say, oh, now let me show you something else. And you, open to the scale of sexuality, say, do you mean to the scale of sexuality? Say, yes, where are you? You don't have to tell me If we are on illumination, where are you on the scale? She's going to want to know that I guarantee you. See, she already knows this works because she just did it, and so she'll look at it and she'll send.

Speaker 2: 33:44

In a matter of seconds she'll find a bracket. Say, well, definitely not 607. That's our. Okay, now let's have you read the chapter and see if we can get to the exact same process. She'll show it, She'll come back. Okay, now you don't have to tell me what for your own illumination, where are you on the scale? Right, whether or not she tells you, she'll find oh, I can see, I'm at level four. No wonder I'm having trouble with Joe, because he's at level five and they can flip. If you look at that scale, you see that it's clear that there are levels that are incompatible. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 34:28

Just obviously incompatible. So I already know two people. If they are not compatible on the scale, it doesn't matter how smart they are, how nice they are, how enlightened they are, they cannot have a successful romantic relationship if they conflict on this scale. They don't have to be at the same level, they have to be at a compatible level. So, you see, she'll have a big realization there, see, and that can mean a couple of things. See, she might just say I'm done with this thought and say go home and say I'm getting a divorce. Now you might say, well, she's going to be unhappy about that. No, she's not. Every time you find a correct level, you are happy about it, because it's the truth. There is an epiphany there. You just got smarter, you just had an insight into your own life. So this blob of cognitive dissonance that's been traveling, traveling around with you like a dark cloud, goes poof. Yeah, you see what's happening. She's not going to be bummed out about that.

Speaker 2: 35:46

I can tell you I had several clients come to me right Because I know this material. Even before I started writing the book I had a lot of this material right. They would come to me and I would say this person would start working and I wouldn't know that this person was going to break up with their relationship Cause been your boyfriend or whatever. I would know that. I would never say that. You know they'd work with me, they'd be very happy Thank you so much, you know and they would go home and get a divorce. I can see that that's just knowing September.

Speaker 1: 36:23

Yeah Well, I can certainly confirm that knowing the truth, even if the truth means that something's going to come to an end or there's going to be a loss of some sort, is a much better experience Than being in that horrible blob experience, as you described it cognitive dissonance, absolutely right. I'm also fascinated that you've named two of the scales relationships and sexuality which a person would think those are massive areas of life, and some people those are the only important areas of life, for example. And yet you said there are 35 scales, so those are just two of 35. That's right. So you know, my hearing's mind immediately thinks right, I must go and find out what the other 33 are.

Speaker 2: 37:09

I'll tell you right now. Go on then. Okay, so there are 24 individual scales, meaning they apply primarily to individual work. There are 11 group scales, meaning they apply primarily to groups. These are the individual scale, the scale of basic purposeness, the scale of personal choice, the scale pardon me the scale of personal influence, the scale of choice, the scale of permeation, the scale of thought, the scale of identity, the scale of evaluation, the scale of motivation, the scale of control, the scale of stopping, the scale of scholarship. And these are the group scale this is what we call a scale of lesson the scale of government, the scale of civilization, the scale of survival, the scale of management, the scale of exchange, the scale of communication, the scale of allegiance, the scale of sexuality and the scale of power. Any one of these 35 skills by itself has the potential to dramatically improve the life of the reader.

Speaker 1: 38:36

I can hear that yeah.

Speaker 2: 38:39

Because I'm sure you can see, I have covered human phenomena, because each of these scales is unique. Excuse me, it covers everything. You see, if they were not unique if there were some, each one is a different version of the other it wouldn't be as broad, because each unique it's very broad. Yeah, which is why I know from direct observation it doesn't matter what situation you have going on, you can use this book to resolve it. Yeah, now I used, for example, in our hypothetical I used I talked about two specific scales. I could have kept going. I could have given you a half a dozen other scales, because when you get to something complex like an interpersonal relationship between two people, that's very complicated. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 39:36

And any scales are going to apply. Exactly the scale of leaders the scale of choice, the scale of control. I mean, these are all big factors, yeah, okay, and so any one of these scales alone? I could write a whole book on each one of these scales. I'm not going to do that, but because, Because nobody lives forever.

Speaker 1: 40:07

Yes, yeah, I mean you. Frankly, nobody, nobody could actually accuse you of not having knuckled down and engaged with your task. Jim, that's right, I think you definitely made a contribution, yeah.

Speaker 2: 40:22

My knuckles are very sore, it's okay, so. So let me tell you how, in a general way, Subtemics is beneficial. Okay, I wrote this book to help people. I have had a lifetime of helping people. Even as a child I was helping people. I've helped hundreds and hundreds of people. Each of these scales provides the user with an infallible way of determining the salutaryness or beneficialness of any group, individual or activity. If the group, individual or activity moves persons up the scale, it's a beneficial appouser. If it moves them down, it's detrimental or negative. I'm giving you a yardstick 35 yardsticks for measuring human phenomena. This is entirely new. Yeah, Okay. More importantly, just finding out what level you or another person is at on any scale is by itself enlightening and beneficial. As I said, when you find the right level, you have a realization, Always, yeah. And finally, once you know the actual level of a person on any scale, you can improve that person by moving them up one level at a time. This is very significant because I have solved the gradient problem that his bedeviled mankind for 6,000 years.

Speaker 1: 42:00

Okay, so explain what you mean by the gradient problem. Okay.

Speaker 2: 42:05

So most people have problems, difficulties, dilemmas, situations don't know how to solve them. The reason they can't solve them is they don't know the gradient. I have worked as a professional trainer. A guy come to me, let's say a guy comes to me and says 100 pounds overweight. I said, jim, I've been trying to fix this for years. Put it on what to do. Will you train? Okay, why? So? I'm not going to just give this guy a 100 pound dark bar balance. They go work with this or tell them go out and run five miles. That's bad training, it's malpractice.

Speaker 2: 42:43

I would say to him do you think maybe you could walk one mile every morning? Right? I'm probably going to say, oh, yeah, I could do that. That's okay, I want you to do that. And at the end of the week talk to me again, right? So at the end of the week I talk to him and he's going to all say how did you do? And if he says this is killing me, this is tough, I'd say keep doing it. See, he's doing it. He says, all right, keep doing it and we'll talk next week. If he said to me he said okay, I got this, now I could do more, I'd say great, let's go to two mile. See how that.

Speaker 2: 43:32

Now five years later you come back and this guy looks like a bodybuilder. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 43:39

See, if he stayed with me, I would keep using the gradients. That is how I succeeded as human development engineer. So I would pick up the client at the level he was in, whatever area is if he's interested in, and then I would gradiently move him up to the next level. So you cannot make a couch potato in an Olympic athlete to an Olympic athlete. It's impossible, can't be done. There are too many intervening levels. A couch potato you could turn him into like maybe a normal person, and once he's a normal person, maybe then you could get him to be an amateur athlete. You see, yeah, so these seven levels on each of these 35 scales are the gradients.

Speaker 1: 44:35

Yeah, I understand what you mean. Yeah, in my work I would call that the transition. It's like the various stages you go through and I think you're right. A lot of people look at right, I've got this problem situation and I want it to be like X, whatever it is, and they can't go from there to there in one step. It's not possible. And then they get discouraged and upset and stuff and stop trying, whereas, equally, if they take a step in that direction, that's too small. Equally, that's not going to work. That's right. So I like your example of you know, could you do this and then you review it, right? Also, in your example, you just had him do it for one week. You didn't say I want you to do this every single day for a year, you know, because that's too long. You know it's just got to get them to Burry. You Get started on it and then you review it and pick it up.

Speaker 2: 45:36

And let me tell you with specificity why people do not get discouraged in using this book. Yeah, if you are, let's say hypothetically, level four and you make a serious effort, you will get to level three. You will Now what you have to do, how much effort it's going to take, how much time it's going to take. These are wild variables, nobody knows that. But if you make an effort you will get from four to three. If you try to go to one or two, you will fail because it's too steep a gradient. So the way this works is you find what level the person is at. He has to find it himself. Then he has a realization. That realization opens his mind to what's going on. Then you'd say, okay, let's target you for this next level of level, okay, and he will get there. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 46:37

Now, when he gets there, he's going to say this works, you see, and then, once he's stable at that level, he could then go to the next level if he wishes. So, basically, this book gives you 35 roadmap for success and, as I said, most situations can be analyzed by more than one setup, so you can be working at it in different ways. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 47:12

So on one scale you're at one level. Another level you might be at a different level, see, and you target the next level up and you ignore everything else. Yeah, one size does not fit all. That is definitely wrong. I see this every day on the internet. You know, if you take this vitamin, you will bup-a-dup-a-dup-a-dup you know, One of our practices says oh, I can fix anything you know, or not get much spoke, they're all wrong. It's never just one thing. There is a gestural. You have to come at it from many directions. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 47:54

And that is true. See, every good coach, therapist, facilitator, a teacher in the world understands that human development must occur on a gradient. The ones who don't know that are not good at it. You know, the ones who know that understand the gradient. So let's say you have a good algebra teacher. He knows how to teach algebra, so you know, he takes the student across. Okay, you got that. Okay, now you got this. Okay, now you got that. See. And somebody asks the question, he answers it, he explains it and by the end of this two semesters you understand algebra. See, that's using the gradient.

Speaker 2: 48:50

So that is why this book is like a massive formula for success, because you find whatever situation is bugging you. You say, okay, what's the scale that works here, right. And you try to find your level on that scale. Or you could try to find somebody else's level because, even though you're not gonna tell them, it's better if you understand it, right. So let's say you're having trouble with an employee, you're not gonna tell them, you're gonna tell them, you're gonna tell them, okay.

Speaker 2: 49:21

So let's say you're having trouble with an employee, right, you don't know what's going on with Smith, you're not as confident. But you look at a certain scale, you say, oh, I see this guy's at this level on this scale, so that is why he's having trouble. Now you might be able to get him in and say, smith, come here, look at this scale of choice. I mean the scale of choice. Yeah, where are you on the scale? You don't have to tell me, but you figure it out. See, we go through that same process. Yeah, so then once he finds it and he has epiphany, then you can help him go up to the next level.

Speaker 2: 50:06

So let me give you a very concrete example that most people will want to hear. Most people have children and most children have trouble in school. Yeah, now the book explains what specificity, why people have trouble in school and tells you how to solve them. But dad sees that Junior is having trouble, he's complaining he's getting bad grades. So dad says come over here, junior, let me show you this. He opens up the book to the scale of scholarship. Well, presumably this kid is old enough to know what the word scholarship means, right? We're not talking about a secure old kid. Say the kid's 12, right, junior? Hi, he knows he's a scholar, he knows he's having trouble, right? So he's gonna say you mean there's a scale of scholarship. And the dad can say, yeah, you are somewhere on this scale and if you can find it we can help you do better. Oh, really See, he'll go through the same process and say well, I can see right off the bat, I'm not at one, two or three.

Speaker 2: 51:18

I'm not a good student, that's way over my head I also, I can see I'm not at five or six, that doesn't even make sense. Or maybe at four or five. See, that happens in a second. And he said okay, read it. Then he comes back and you say hey, so where are you right? And the kid will say well, I can see, now that I've read this, I'm at level five. No wonder I'm having trouble at school, you see. And then the dad can say okay, let's move you to level four, and then you'll be doing better. Well, the kid's gonna wanna do that.

Speaker 2: 51:58

Yeah so I tell you in that chapter with specificity how to make someone a better scholar. There's no vagueness in this book.

Speaker 1: 52:08

I am whore vagueness and it also seems like you're removing the element of judgmentalism or self-judgmentalism. Because you're not saying right, this is why you're a hopeless case. It sounds like in the situation everybody can find in, amongst those various different scales, areas where they're doing really well or not well in other areas, et cetera, so they can see where they can do some work. But also I love that example with the kid because what you're also doing is you're inviting him to be more autonomous because he's identifying his own assessment.

Speaker 1: 52:55

And so many of us at school were always assessed by other people and they were not asked for our own assessment. And you're also teaching him critical thinking and self-awareness just in the process of doing it.

Speaker 2: 53:08

Is that right?

Speaker 1: 53:10

Which is powerful. There was something you said to me before we started recording and I'd love you to speak about, where you said you must not tell somebody else what level they're at. Yes, I love that and I'd love you to talk about that a little bit, if you would, for the listeners.

Speaker 2: 53:26

Okay, it's actually slightly broader than you stated it.

Speaker 1: 53:31

Okay.

Speaker 2: 53:32

The way I stated it is never tell any living person the level of any living person on any scale, Okay. So when it comes to yourself, Uh-huh, okay, so, final level, I'm not saying to tell people what level you're at. I say don't do that. No, you might have an isolated circumstance with someone you're very close to, where there's such a bond that there isn't gonna be any judgementalism anyway, because there's an intimacy, you know, like a close friend or spouse. Yeah, but it would be an exception, but it certainly wouldn't be going in and telling them. It would be more like well, yeah, I found my level. Do you see, John? You look, yeah, I found my level. Well, I'll tell you honestly, it's all yours, you know. That's what I'm saying.

Speaker 2: 54:30

Yeah, but other than that, it's counterproductive and unethical. It's counterproductive because when the person finds his level, he has an epiphany. You don't wanna take that away from him and to have that, you want him to say oh, now I see why I don't get along with Fred. He's at this lower level on this, let's run, he's nuts. Now. What he does with that is another thing. It might just be something that the relationship gets better, because when Fred gets into that little area. He sort of knows what he's looking at. Or he might just say I don't wanna deal with this anymore. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 55:19

I get that totally. I think that's such a beautiful point because I think some of us and I don't think this is one of my particular flaws, I have others, but some of us, if we come across something like this, we just wanna walk in and go right, you, you're a five, and that's why you need to change and lots more. On this other scale, here you're a seven and on this one, you're a six.

Speaker 1: 55:45

And you need to shape up. They don't realize that by doing that, they're demonstrating that they are a seven on one of the other scales. Like are we gonna waiting in on people like that?

Speaker 2: 55:57

You can do, if you wish, a complete septemic analysis of a person. Yeah, there are three of them at the back of the book Actual people that I knew very well and I assessed them across 35 scales. Now, it is to say I didn't mention any names, I didn't mention gender, I didn't mention age, there's no way to tell. They're just called subject one, subject two, subject three, and you can see what a full septemic analysis looks like. Perfect, you go high and something's low enough, and I sort of talk about how well, this person was low in this scale, but you might not be able to see that easily because he's high in this other scale. Sometimes one masks another and this gives you a realistic perception of a person. You see what's there. So think about this. Let's say, if you invited me to your home and said, jim, come and look at my guard, I'd say great, I come over and it's oh, you have nasturtiums, you have hydrangeas, you have tulips, you have forget-me-nots, you have roses. Right, I can do that because I know flowers. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 57:12

Right. If you bring some little kid in there who doesn't know any of that, he just says, oh, these are pretty in there, different colors, he, he, he gets all he can cost. Most people are like that little kid as regards people, they don't know what they're looking at. So, for example, if you know a little botany, a tulip is completely different from a rose, completely. A rose is in the same family as an apple. A rose genetically has much more common with an apple than it does with a tulip. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 57:55

So see, when you know botany, you know plants. So I know people the way a botanist was done. Or to go back to my career as a human development engineer, I understood people the same way an aeronautical engineer understands airplane, the same way an automotive engineer understands cars. So eventually, this led me to find this material, and put it in this, fascinating. So let me tell you one sentence that really brings this into focus. The data in this book are vital for every human being and can help you to achieve your goals faster and easier by explaining what might otherwise seem to be inexplicable or random. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 58:52

So if somebody were to invite me to a rendezvous, you would certainly expect them to tell you the date, the time, the location and perhaps not to get there. Yeah, needless to say. Needless to say, it's very difficult to get somewhere If you don't know where you are, where it's starting out from, don't know where you're going and or don't know how to get to your destination. Now, this sounds idiotic, but most people do this regularly. Most people do not know where they are, where they're going and how to get there, and this book solves that across 35 axes. Furthermore, I have to explain.

Speaker 2: 59:39

There are general scales and specific scales. Now, in a general scale, once you use it on a person, whether it's yourself or another, you're done. You can try to move up, but you're done with it. In other words, it is a general fact, like, for example, every person has a basic purpose. There are only seven basic purposes. Everybody has one of them and they're on that scale. So when you find your basic purpose, if it's a major epiphany, it changes your life you throw out the other six and you say this is for me, this is who I am, this is, and it clarifies your whole life, as opposed to a specific scale.

Speaker 2: 1:00:26

A specific scale is context-driven. It has no general meaning. For example, take the scale of motivation. You could figure out what's my motivation toward my spouse, what's my motivation toward my son, what's my motivation toward my mother, what's my motivation toward my next door neighbor. Or, perhaps even more important is, what is my boss's motivation toward me, what is my boyfriend's motivation toward me? What is my business partner's motivation toward me? So you say you could take that scale and use it hundreds of ways. Yeah, so if you take that a little bit yet I just gave you and blow it up a billion times in every direction, you get what this book is about.

Speaker 1: 1:01:12

Yeah, yeah, I get it.

Speaker 1: 1:01:14

Yeah, okay. So I've got a question which is, I think, and a lot of people think that there's also a value in being in a state of not knowing, being in a state of open to any possibility about oneself or about life. Now, I'm sure you've come across that idea yourself in your studies, and the reason I'm raising it now is because you're talking about a body of work where people can find things out very specifically and have an experience of knowing. So I'd like to hear from you your take on that other perspective around the value of not knowing, and it won't surprise me if you tell me that you've borne that in mind in the working of septemics. So this is quite a sort of left field kind of question in relationship to what we've been talking about.

Speaker 2: 1:02:09

Okay, well, let me first say you posited two scenarios and I'm gonna object to the premise of the question because there's a difference between being open to possibilities and not knowing. Yeah, so one of the things that I have been using in continuously in my career and in my life is the datum that a problem can only exist if there's unknown. Let's say, a guy is being audited by the IRS. He's American, right. He's a nervous wreck, can't sleep, he's drinking, big problem, right. You know why? He doesn't know. He doesn't know what they're going to find. He doesn't know what they're going to say. He doesn't know what they're going to do. He doesn't know how to respond. He doesn't know what papers to get together. See, it's loaded with unknowns. So I would get a precedent session and I would get them to spot all of the unknown and by that, at some point he would say you know, it's not a problem. This is something I have to deal with. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:03:30

He stops worrying about knowledge, forestall problem. Now remember I said find a person who has the problem, the difficulty situation, right. There are unknowns there and by helping them to find known that are relevant, some of those unknowns are dispersed. I understand.

Speaker 1: 1:03:55

Okay, so you're talking about situations where there's a problem. It's really beneficial to find the knowns in relationship to that problem. Yes, but then of course there are other situations in life where there isn't a problem. That's right, and that's a whole different experience. That's right. So let's say somebody is in a place in their life where they don't really have problems, they feel really good about life, they really feel like they're in the groove, et cetera. How might that person get value from septemics?

Speaker 2: 1:04:30

Because that person is going to have friend, relative, business partners, employees, right. Let's say you have a guy who's got 170 IQ, who's got $10 million in the bank, he's got a supermodel for a wife, he lives in a mansion. This guy's got 200 employees, right. So now one of his managers is showing up late, seeming dispersed, not getting the job done. So I write to you, say Johnson, come over here, what's going on with you, what's going on with you? And Johnson will, if you are a safe terminal for communication, will tell you. Well, I don't want to bring it up, but my wife left me and I've been drinking. Big situation Get out the book, yeah, you see. Yeah, when you can say Johnson, all right, so you have this relationship with your wife. Let's take a look at the scale of relationship. Okay, so you have this situation where you're drinking is out of control. Look at the scale of control, right. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:05:47

So, you sense yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:05:49

Perfect, yeah, and so so now? So now, johnson, you sort him out, right? He stops being a drunk, he just starts dating again instead of worrying about his wife, and now he's back for doing his regular job. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:06:05

Brilliant. Thank you very much. I mean, I feel like we could talk about this for hours and end, because we don't have time to do that, but you've sort of segwayed a little bit into my next question, which is about leadership. So in the world at the moment, I think we can agree we're in interesting times and there are a lot of difficulties in the world itself, and there are a lot of people in leadership positions and I'm including people who just want to be better leaders in their own lives and some of these people are listening to this podcast, you know, and they want to be part of a solution. So is there something you'd like to say to those people in relationship to what we've been talking about today?

Speaker 2: 1:06:49

Yes, get the book. The book. It is a textbook on an entirely new subject. Study it, don't read it. Study it the way you would study a chemistry text, a physics text, a math text, an economics text. You start on line one, page one, and when you understand that, go to line two. Okay, I'm working all the way through to the end of the book. It'll take some time. And when you're done, go back to the beginning, read it again and then find your level on every scale, and by the time you get through the second reading, you'll be a new person. Your mind will be clearer. You'll understand what's going on.

Speaker 2: 1:07:38

See, you might have gotten rid of some people who you found to be very downscale people. Now you know why you get rid of them. They're not a thorn in your side. Or other people who you see are very upscale people. You might promote them.

Speaker 2: 1:07:55

When I was a young person, obviously this material didn't exist. I hadn't discovered it yet, so I made the same stupid mistakes that everybody else made. Now that cannot happen, does not happen, will not happen in my life. Because I look at a person and I can analyze them. Oh, this is an upscale person in the downscope. Okay, this person is high on this scale, not so high on this scale, tells me what to do.

Speaker 2: 1:08:26

I'll give you a perfect example. If you said, uh, no, clinton is coming over to my house, Would you like to join us? I mean say, yes, he's a very smart man. Okay, a Rhodes scholar. He's the last American president ever to sign a balanced budget. Then you could say, well, the Republicans forced him into it, and there's some truth to that. But he was smart enough to give the people what they wanted, so he's left. I don't need to get me elected. He put a high appeal rate. Okay, very smart man. I happen to know a lot about political science. I would love to talk to him about that area. He knows what he's talking about. However, if I had a daughter or sister, I would say to them don't go out with Bill Clinton, right? It is a widely known fact that he is a serial abuser of women.

Speaker 2: 1:09:33

Okay, I'm not telling tales out of school there. Everybody who's been paying attention knows this. Yeah, he got sued by many women for his abuse of the he. That's how he wound up getting impeached, because he perjured himself and he obstructed Okay, or he was the word. So morning perjury, right. So that's why he got impeached, because you know, if he had just said, okay, here's, I have million dollars go away, he would never have been impeached. So that's a perfect example of a guy's high and some skills, low and other skills. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:10:17

So that's how most of us are. So you want to understand your spouse, your son. Most people have trouble with their kids. Analyze the kid against these 35 skill and then you know exactly what you're dealing with. Yeah, so I have friends, relatives, clients. You know, and I know where they are on certain scale. I'm not telling anybody, but I know, and so I know what to do. For example, I have a client, brilliant person, very successful, graduated from an elite university. This person has a lot of trouble making choices, so on the scale of choice, he's not so high. So if you expect this person to make a choice, you're going to be in for a long wait. So I know not to do that, you see, and so that facilitates the relationship.

Speaker 1: 1:11:20

Yes, you can be compassionate around that with that person.

Speaker 2: 1:11:24

Not only compassionate efficient. Yeah. Efficient. You know where to go and where not to go. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:11:33

I have another person I deal with who very smart person, very skilled person has some kind of a weird communication disability, doesn't communicate well, doesn't communicate normal. So if I look at him on the scale of communication, I see all kinds of red flags. I have to work around this with this guy. So I know this, you know, and I don't expect him to communicate to me the way you're communicating with me, but I know he's good at his job. So you know, I sort of put up with that and I just let him do his job. So that's what this book is about. There's no judgment involved, it's just seeing what's there.

Speaker 2: 1:12:19

This book is like botany or astronomy or zoology. It's the descriptive science. Okay, I absolutely know that these 35 skills are correct. I spent 35 years making sure, and so you might quibble with what word I use to describe it, for example, scale. The basic purpose. Level two is leader. The basic objective of a leader is conquest. Now, I pondered that for some time. Did I really want to use that word, but I couldn't fit another word that was better. So if you understand leaders like Abraham Lincoln Winston Churchill was a leader, alexander the Great was a leader what do they have in common Conquest. Churchill was determined to conquer the Nazis. If he were not, prime Minister, england would have surrendered because the Germans did pay the English. They would have easily made a peace treaty with them. That's what they tried to do for years. It's now no body in the scene. Churchill wouldn't have. He was going to conquer them. Same thing with Lincoln and the Confederacy. He was determined to conquer the.

Speaker 2: 1:13:43

Nazis. He was determined to conquer the Nazis and he did. He conquered it. So people could say, well, conquest is not a good thing, or really, that's the question of whose ox is being gored, and this is such a thing as good conquest and a bad conquest. I mean, when Lincoln conquered the Confederacy, he freed the slaves. He used to do an emancipation proclamation in pursuit of that purpose, and then, after the war, he pushed through the 13th Amendment which made slavery unconstitutional. That was all Lincoln Okay. So wasn't that a good conquest?

Speaker 1: 1:14:26

Because yeah, I can't say yes or no to that because, you know, to me those situations are so complex. You know I can see. Obviously that's an incredibly positive outcome. Yes, but I'm also thinking a lot of leaders are not in a position where conquest is on their agenda in the way that you've just described, unless you're using the word conquest in other ways as well. Presumably in the book you explain what you mean by some of these terms.

Speaker 2: 1:14:57

Yes, so I could see how someone could say well, you should have called that and I probably wouldn't even argue with that because writing is an art. Yeah, exactly, so I had to go from science, which was discovering the phenomena, to engineering, which was creating the subject, to writing, which is an art. Yeah, so I had to have all of those areas of expertise in order to create this.

Speaker 2: 1:15:29

So, I could see how somebody might say well, maybe you couldn't have called it this for that. And if you read it you can sort of see that sort of embedded into it, because I give synonyms in many places.

Speaker 1: 1:15:45

Yes, yeah, so you're explaining what you mean by the word. I mean, you know I think we all know that words are not adequate to really describe everything about humanity. I mean, it's kind of, but it's a way to have a good go, isn't it?

Speaker 2: 1:15:59

You know, we choose the best word we think fits the best I think the reason that people really dig this is that I did a pretty good job in choosing the right words, right? Yeah, I spent a lot of time really thinking about what is this phenomena and what word in English gets it the best. So I'll give you an example. This kind of sexuality, level two, is called take it or leave it. You can say what kind of a name is that for a level? Well, there are people not many, but there are people who get to a level about sexuality where they can take it or leave it. Yeah, if the girl says no to the guy, fine and she says yes, that's fine too. Most people never get there.

Speaker 1: 1:16:50

No, I understand that, but.

Speaker 2: 1:16:52

I looked at this phenomenon and I thought what am I going to call this? Well, I'll just call it, take it or leave it, because everybody knows what that means. Yeah, yeah, see. So you can say well, that's not a very graceful or eloquent name for a level, but I don't care about that. I care about helping people. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:17:13

I think it's very good. I think that example is very good. I think the leadership one with Conquest that's one where I feel like I would want to read the chapter and understand more about what you're saying there, because although that word Conquest and I think you've correctly identified that as an example where someone might challenge that that word Conquest is quite emotive, so sometimes that's a really good thing because it challenges us to actually look into something and say what does that actually mean in terms of my understanding of what leadership is about, or being a leader? So I don't have any problem with you using words that someone might have a problem with, because you're not writing this book in order to get everyone's approval. You're writing, you've written it in order to help people and you've chosen the words that you feel serve that outcome the best. So that's what you've done. Yeah, so, before we carry on talking for another two hours which I mean honestly, I'm really enjoying this when do you want people to go if they want to find you, jim?

Speaker 2: 1:18:30

Well, I invite your listeners to go to my website, which is septemixcom S-E-P-E-M-I-C-S, where you can see what many readers have said about it, what many journalists have written about it, what the reviews are. You could be sections of the book itself and you can listen to a pre-recorded introduction to Septemic, which explains this subject to a new person.

Speaker 1: 1:19:00

Wonderful, and is that in your voice? Yes, fantastic, excellent. And can people buy the book on your website?

Speaker 2: 1:19:08

Well, you can't buy it directly through the website, but it tells you where you can go to get it. You can, of course, get it at Amazon, barnes Nobles, really any place that books are sold. The book industry has changed Most books that they aren't even in print, they're just in a program, and when you buy it they print it up and send it to you. So it's kind of a different business from what most people used to think it was. You know, they don't have boxes anymore, so it's easy to find. If you just type the word Septemix into a search engine, you'll get hundreds of responses, including all the people who are selling the book. Great, and it exists in hardbound, soft-pound and e-book. Needless to say, the e-book is very inexpensive, so you can completely change your life for $10.

Speaker 1: 1:20:04

Fantastic.

Speaker 2: 1:20:08

Because I went out of my way to write this book in such a way that, once you have it, you don't need anything else in order to use it. You don't need to hire a facilitator, you don't need to join a church, you don't need to take classes, you don't need to spend money. The only thing you might need is a dictionary, but I would say that's every book in existence, absolutely, and everybody has a dictionary. Now the way in the market.

Speaker 1: 1:20:37

Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2: 1:20:39

So you get the book and if you approach it the way I tell you to approach it, in the book there's very explicit directions how to use it you will get it.

Speaker 2: 1:20:53

Some of it will be easier for you than other things, because people are different. Usually you have to realize that when a person is at or near the top of any scale, it's because he has insight in that area. When a person is at or near the bottom of any scale, it's because he lacks insight in that area. So if you are at or near the bottom of any scale, you're going to have some trouble with that because that's what you're at, or near the bottom, because you lack insight in that area. So to the extent that you use this, it develops insight because, remember I said, every time you find a correct level you have an insight. You say, ah, now I see what's going on with Kirtrude, so you become more insightful and that facilitates your usage of the book in future. And then you use it and you become more insightful. So it's like a snowball effect where you become more insightful and more insightful and more insightful and the more you use it, the easier it is to use because you're more insightful.

Speaker 1: 1:22:06

Yeah, exactly. Well, this, of course, fits perfectly with the name of this very podcast Truth and Transcendence because my premise is that when we find what's true for us, that's when we have the opportunity to transcend, and you're saying an equivalent thing. I think you know that when you find where you feel that you are on a scale that gives you more insight, which then, actually, when we have an insight, we get more access to the genius within, don't we? We get more access to that that we have within us? So my final question, which I always ask everybody, is we've talked about a lot today and I'm very grateful to you for talking about Septemix so deeply and making it so understandable and everything else you've talked about. If you look back over this conversation, has there been a favourite part of our conversation today for you?

Speaker 2: 1:23:00

Oh well, I don't really remember it that way. It's all occurring in Medius Rez, you know, and you know it's just coming out of this answering your questions, so you know that is a perfect answer.

Speaker 1: 1:23:15

Yeah, because you know that's just. Sometimes that's the best conversation, isn't it? Where you just you get to the end of it and you think I hardly even know exactly what's been said, but I do know that we've had really had a conversation. So thank you so much, Jim. Is there anything else you'd like to say? Finally, that you would kick yourself if you don't say before we finish.

Speaker 2: 1:23:40

Yes, every single person is at some level, on every scale. Now, you can ignore that data, but you do so at your own peril. It's much smarter to just use it. Yeah, figure out, where are you on the scale of attack, where are you on the scale of control, where are you on the scale of choice, and then you understand who you are with you and do the same thing for the people around you. So think of it this way when you take your car out on the road, there's signage which you are required to obey. There's a stop sign, no left turn, no U-turn, speed limit right Is all the signage.

Speaker 2: 1:24:29

If you do not obey that signage, you're going to get in a lot of trouble. You could get a ticket, you could lose your license, you could wreck your car, you could kill somebody, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Bad things are going to happen. That is what this book is like. It gives you the signage for life. It tells you where the edge of the road is. It's very specific and so, because it gives you knowledge, it says nothing to do with how you feel. You are at a level, just as you are at a point on the surface of the earth. You know you get out in GPS unit gives you a readup. That's where you are, that's how this is. It's specific, it's precise and when you find it correctly, it's like use it for your own benefit, because your success is my reward.

Speaker 1: 1:25:27

Beautiful, wonderful. Well, I think people will have got the message by now that it was yastic about your book and I think it's wonderful. And I'm going to say one final thing on it. I really like the logo you have for it, with the seven colored arrows.

Speaker 2: 1:25:46

I just find that very beautiful.

Speaker 1: 1:25:48

So, for me, that's always a part of an appeal on something, so I want to thank you for giving it that.

Speaker 2: 1:25:54

Yes, it tells you all about Septimax. You have seven rays. Each of us points in a different direction, each of which is a different color, and between them they make a spectrum. That is exactly what these 35 scales are.

Speaker 1: 1:26:09

Yeah, exactly Beautiful. Well, jim, thank you so much for this conversation. It's been absolutely fascinating for me and I really encourage the listeners to go out and check out the book, get the ebook, get the hardback, get the softback, whatever.

Speaker 1: 1:26:26

And this episode is airing in the spring of 2024, which is a perfect time, as we've come out of the winter and we're really getting into our groove for the year. It's a perfect time for something like Septimax, isn't it? It's a perfect time to review where are we in the areas that matter to us? What do we want to do in our year? Thank you so much, jim, and have a fantastic day. You're welcome.