Ep 132: Ken Stearns ~ Embracing Life's Shifts & Journeying Through Change

Get ready to embark on an unexpected journey with Ken Stearns, the creative mind behind the JAR Foundation and the JAR podcast. As we traverse the unpredictable terrains of life changes, Ken bares his soul, sharing his personal journey of leaving a comfortable existence to chase his dreams, traveling across the United States, and learning from the diverse pool of individuals he interviews. 

This episode is a candid exploration into the heart of change - the good, the bad, the challenging, and the rewarding. We mull over how change, harsh and yet beautiful in its own way, can lead to exponential personal growth and fulfillment. 

Ken also uncovers his spiritual journey that led him to walk away from his accounting job to pen a book and his belief in the pervasive interconnectedness of all things. We delve into the emotional undercurrents of running the JAR Foundation, and the importance of self-care amidst it all. As we wrap up our conversation in the light of commitment's power and the role our support systems play, we stumble upon some heartwarming moments and inspiring insights. Tune in for a conversation that is as transformative as it is enlightening.

Where to find Ken:
www.thejar.live

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:02

Truth and Transcendence, brought to you by being Space with Catherine Llewellyn. Truth and Transcendence, episode 132, with special guest Ken Stearns. Now, if you haven't come across Ken yet, he is a director at the JAW Foundation, which is a non-profit organisation that aims to help in any way possible with the mental health crisis in America, focusing on reducing the stigma, improving access, cost and education. He is also the creator and host of the JAW, an interview format podcast where Ken covers topics like love, compassion, tomorrow, forgiveness and acceptance, and more from his recent book Dear God, with his guests. Ken also, interestingly, has over 25 years of executive leadership experience in the insurance world, and he is a public speaker and lyricist and a songwriter whose works are available on iTunes and Spotify.

Speaker 1: 1:22

Ken believes that reaching a common goal can only be achieved through the power of inspiration. So that's actually one of the reasons I invited Ken on, because I love how Ken simply up and left his comfortable life and set off around the US in a van with a JAW full of interview questions, interviewing people far and wide. He's following his dream, he's learning as he goes and many people are being touched and uplifted along the way. Stunning and inspiring. So, ken, thank you so much for coming on the show.

Speaker 2: 2:01

Katherine, thanks for having me, and I've really enjoyed our discussions up to date, having you on my show and also our pre-chats and just really getting to know you as a person. It's been great.

Speaker 1: 2:12

Thank you so much and it was an absolute pleasure and privilege coming on your show. So I'm hoping after this everybody will listen to your show and take it in because it was fantastic.

Speaker 1: 2:24

So we talked about what theme we wanted to talk about and we hit on embracing change, and I was thinking about this and thinking actually, I think that theme is relevant for an awful lot of people at the moment, because there are people all around the world who are having to engage with change or wanting to engage with change, whether they chose it, whether they chose it and then forgot they chose it or whether they were forced into it.

Speaker 1: 2:55

So I think it really is a theme of the moment. So, ken, I'm delighted that I think your example of embracing change is really quite a strong one. We're not all going to throw everything in the air and set off around the continent in the van.

Speaker 2: 3:13

I don't recommend it for everybody, honestly.

Speaker 1: 3:17

You need to be a certain type of person to do it. But, ken, you're very connected to this old theme of embracing change. If you cast your mind back, can you remember when in your life you first really connected with the importance of embracing change and took an interest in it?

Speaker 2: 3:42

Yeah, katherine, as you were talking, I kind of had this thought or this expression of either you embrace change and you're ready for it or you think about it. You don't have to change, but you should be, think about how your life could change and what you would do. But certainly change does come looking for you at some point. So as much as we want to keep our lives in a particular way, sometimes a nice routine, and things change does happen and you should be prepared for it. And I think if you embrace it a little bit sometimes and seek it out, that'll give you a little bit. You give you some practice and I think it's good. But life changes.

Speaker 2: 4:29

I wouldn't recommend what I did for everybody and when I have looked back, taking your life and dropping it from 35,000 feet and shattering it into a million pieces and then trying to reassemble it to an art form is not for the meek and for sure. I'm still on the journey and I'm still piecing it together, this life together, as I kind of do the journey. But I think it's funny. I look back and I am a bit of a change person and I don't know where it comes from. When I was I just graduated college and I had got a job, nice job in California.

Speaker 2: 5:11

I was an accountant and I was a, and I had kind of figured out this path in my career of accounting. My wife was, I was married, my wife was three months pregnant and there were some things that happening at work which kind of just made me think I am man, this guy's doing this other job and he is a ding dong and he's making money and I'm doing this accounting job and I want to be stuck in this job for my whole life. Like I see the path, there's no escape and I thought I should get into sales and so I quit my job great salary, benefits. I have a baby on the way and I come home and I tell my wife I've quit the job. I have a new job. It pays one third the salary but I could get commission and, sorry, I don't have any benefits, haven't really figured out how we're going to birth the baby. That was one of the parts I hadn't really calculated Slightly important.

Speaker 1: 6:11

So you came home with this news to a pregnant woman.

Speaker 2: 6:16

And and she still, and we stayed married for a while after that even super shocking Like I didn't die that night and and that's kind of a little bit my first attempt at real radical change. And the experience was not fun in a way. You know I had that. I love the job. I loved what I did. Personally, the growth was amazing. I went to places I never knew I could go. I was cold calling, I was knocking on strange doors asking people to buy calculators. I was doing something so far outside my view of what I would be doing in life and but I but I sucked pretty bad at it and I got fired. And then I, you know, had another job, and that job, that company, went away and you know, and so this series of things, of these jobs happened and finally I landed an insurance job. Because that's when you roll far enough downhill in in life, you end up as an agent, an insurance agent. You know the job of last resort.

Speaker 1: 7:22

You can only say that because you've been one. If I say that, absolutely, I have made a big.

Speaker 2: 7:26

I had a huge. It was my rice bowl. I had big career in insurance, yeah, and absolutely I could. I love insurance and I love agents beyond what I can express. It's a great career and it's an amazing business, but it is not a place you want to find yourself starting out because it's everybody fails like 100% fail rate. It's brutal. You get rejected. No one wants to talk to you, even your family. You know you talk about the strange things, but if you get through that, which I did and you've so I would say my change moment was quitting that job.

Speaker 2: 8:05

But the expression of that the, the harvest, if you will, catherine took a few years. Yeah, it really took a few years, and it knocked me sideways. Now I ended up in a much better place and I was a different person as a result and I was not on this career path for accounting and management and and being in an office. I had that bug and I think what would happen is I would reach a plateau in my personal development and I would seek out that next, like shock or that next, you know, cracking the plate into 10 pieces. You know what would that look like? Where would I get that next growth? How does that look?

Speaker 2: 8:52

And the next one came. I saw an advertisement that said move to Asia. We're looking for people with this insurance experience and I happen to have that insurance experience. It seemed like the universe was knocking on my door. It was like time to answer the door, and so, very shortly after answering the ad, I found myself and my family. We left California and I was landed in Hong Kong with my two daughters and my wife, and you know that's change Definitely when you said.

Speaker 1: 9:31

When you said a few sentences ago I had that bug and I followed it. What do you mean by that bug? What was that? That was kind of pulling you.

Speaker 2: 9:43

It was like a personal development plateau Like I had. You know, I'm here and I'm comfortable and I'm good, and I'm good at what I do and I'm relaxed at what I do and I can see everything is going to have this nice natural path. But that natural path is just very, you know, it's very stepped and I don't see that that, that that chasm, catacysmic, I don't know how the word is. Yeah, a growth like a huge growth. Yeah, like where am I going to really become a different person? And I don't know. I can look back now and realize I was answering some call, catherine, and I don't know what it was. Who does you know? Why would I, why would I seek out that kind of change? Is it the adventure? You know, if I got this kind of? You know, the body keeps the score in my DNA do I have this kind of go West young man, you know, kind of kind of thing? And just I kept going West but it turned out to be East.

Speaker 1: 10:45

You keep going far enough West, you will end up in the same.

Speaker 2: 10:48

Which is what I did. I ended up, you know, end up in the East, and it was also a really big change, Not quite the same with throwing my life up and kind of. You know, because I was stepping into something, it was a little bit easier. I'm stepping into a role that I had to kind of create and you know that again, a long, a long time to kind of get your feet, although I'm getting, you know, I was getting better at it. It was a transition to insurance. There was a good pathway, but it was a for sure. It was obviously a growth moment and a growth years and you struggle. Yeah, I think it's interesting, Catherine, you a lot of all of my change, most of my change, I should say, has been self inflicted.

Speaker 1: 11:35

Yeah, well, that makes a massive difference to the experience of it, doesn't it?

Speaker 2: 11:39

Yeah, it does, and the ownership of it and and the words you use, right, it did it. I think sometimes we can be the victim if change happens to people. So I think you know, when people are listening, change happens to us. Like I said before you, either you're either out there doing things and changing life, but sometimes, like you know, change knocks on your door. Yeah, and you can think of that happening to you is a real victim kind of a circumstance. You know the, the tone and the language, and for me I was doing it to myself, I was the one causing the change and so everything as a result of that was my, you know, my own doing and I had to make that make sense.

Speaker 1: 12:24

Because you knew that you were you. You were actually autonomous, you were actually making your own choices rather than being done to.

Speaker 2: 12:33

Yeah, and, and so I. It's a different. You really have to have that different mindset. And you know, I just I've had a couple of conversations, a strange analogy, but you know, I've just been talking to two people who had lost a child and you know, talking to a parent that's lost a child, that is that's a change that happens to you and there's no getting around that. That that part of the conversation.

Speaker 2: 13:00

But as I sat with this gentleman this past weekend, you know, ultimately we came to the conclusion that he was given a gift, that it wasn't a change that happened to that. He was given actually a gift and that gift, a terrible gift, but a gift that allowed him to impact other people. He's now saving. He lost a life but he saved many more lives as a result of it. So change comes in many forms and it comes in horrific forms, but there's a beauty to all of it and it doesn't happen to us, right, it happens for us and I think you know we've got, as, as a people, we've got to find, once you're over the shock, once you're over if there's a trauma or if it's a loss, you've got to mourn that loss. You've got to go through that. But on the other side of these is the purpose right. There's nothing accidental in life. There's no, there's no, this happened to you. These are things that happened and they happen for us, and it's in, it's our job, and so it's weird that I'm. You know, I also think that these are happening for me in a way, and even though they're self inflicted, right and so the ability to take my family and to, at that point too, I had, I was responsible for other people, I had forced change on everybody. Yeah, that was a different. You know, honestly, that was heavy and I didn't realize that for a while. You know, a bit selfish, in a way a bit autonomous, but I didn't realize that I had forced everybody into my little program, and that was I had a little bit of some guilt on that for a while. We all struggled. I ended up getting divorced, and that's partly because of the move, for sure, and so there's a lot, there's a lot of cost too, but I think I'm in the place I would have been anyway in some way, shape or form, and the change was ultimately good for everybody. It's part of our fabric, of our life. Now, my daughters, I, my two daughters, and in my wife and Joy. We all had a great, great experience in the end net, net, you know.

Speaker 2: 15:25

And I then started to have change happen to me. So then I was, you know, I was in Hong Kong at a great job. Everything's kind of. You know, my life is pretty. You know, you do, this is what you do, and I change companies and stuff and there's a little bit of change in there, but it's not anything real big. But ultimately then they started moving me, the companies. Then change was happening to me and I was in control. You know they would come in and just say tomorrow you're going to be in Vietnam and you know, when you come out, we don't know. You know at some point we'll fire you or we'll move you. And you know, then they moved me to Indonesia and then they moved me to Thailand and then they fired me. Yeah, and you know all these things are happening and you've in your it's change and it's I'm not in control. Yeah, yeah, that's not a good for me. That's not like. I'm not really a fan of that.

Speaker 1: 16:22

That didn't fit with your program.

Speaker 2: 16:25

Not with my program, but I'm very capable. Yeah, you know, like I absolutely roll with the punches and that part is good, but I'm not in control and it's not. You know, it's back to my. What's inside of me for change. Is that that growth? Where's that? Where am I going to become different? How am I going to affect myself in a, in a big way?

Speaker 1: 16:49

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 16:50

And so this is these were happening to me and I can manage that, but they weren't really happening for like, like there wasn't really a great purpose. I would go and I'd learn and be something there, but I wasn't. It wasn't me I had. You know, sometimes the, the notion for change comes from funny places and and I think you've probably experienced this, catherine, where you know these whispers or these things happen to you in life, right, these moments, and you don't realize it. But it's the smallest little kind of like, I don't know. Like like an atom hitting an atom and then you know that hits four atoms and those four atoms hit. It just kind of keeps going and you don't see it.

Speaker 1: 17:33

Yeah, yeah, until afterwards. You look back 30 years later and you can see, one thing led to the other, led to the other.

Speaker 2: 17:41

Yes, and then you might almost think, like it's almost by design, if you get crazy enough.

Speaker 1: 17:47

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 17:48

You might think it's actually part of the plan. Yeah, and I had this. And so I had this gentleman. This guy I really respected looked at me one day at a conference and he said you know, when am I, when are you going to be a speaker? And this big, it was a big event we were running and I had hired him to hire speakers. So he was a speaker guy and he's like, when are you going to be the speaker? And I was like, well, I don't know, should I be the speaker? He's, you should be the speaker. And I thought, okay, and somewhere along that, and the other thing he put in my head was but you need a book, Doesn't matter what kind of book, to be a crappy book can. You just need a book, and that's all you need. And then you're gone and, boy man, that I don't.

Speaker 2: 18:33

You know, somewhere after that I started writing a book on an airplane and you know, just just start notes and scratch, and, and then the job got crazy and those notes went away and they sat in my drawer for four or five years. And then I had a change. Another life change happened to me and I decided that I was going to do something like a little bit, you know, a little bit crazy. I was going to buy a guitar, something different, yeah, and create a little change, create an energy inside my little universe that would have some kind of energy to it. And it was my third try at guitar. I had one when I was about 10, one when I was about 40. And then, you know, this is my third try and and I made a commitment and we talked about this as the that, that commitment word, where the, where the word commitment came from as as part of our conversation.

Speaker 1: 19:32

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 19:35

It's kind of the combination of the two. I wanted to buy a guitar and I wanted to treat myself to a nice guitar. I didn't want to buy a $200 guitar that wouldn't sound good. Even if I sound, even if I was bad, or even if I got good, no matter how well I played it, it was still. The tone wasn't beautiful. And I wanted to look at a beautiful guitar. And so I went to this guitar store and you know funny thing happened. I put this change out there and I was very vocal, like I told my daughter I was intentional, this is what I'm going to do.

Speaker 2: 20:11

And I get into the guitar store and I'm super intimidated, like really intimidated, and then I'm like, okay, I'm going to buy a good guitar, I'm going to spend the real money, but I'm going to do this for two years. I commit. I'm going to commit to myself two years of trying and I'll have lessons and I won't give up At the end of two years, no matter how much it hurts. I will sell the guitar if I suck. Yeah, yeah, that's it, I'm out. But I'm going to try for two years and then I will say I tried and I'll have a lesson, I'll have a teacher and so I got back to Thailand and I had it. So I'm sorry I'll finish the story of the guitar so I bought. I'm in this store. I'm having this conversation with myself like stay committed. And I'm super intimidated looking at this guitar store. They're nice guitars, people are playing them beautifully.

Speaker 1: 21:09

They are intimidating those stores.

Speaker 2: 21:13

So intimidating, catherine, I don't even know how to really hold the guitar anymore. Like, honestly, the more you're in there, the less like anything you thought you knew. It just goes away because you see, everybody else really doesn't. And I just like now I'm having second doubt, I'm having second thoughts, I'm like maybe I'll just, I'll come back or I'll find another store. And so now I'm starting to unwind my, my, my conversation with myself and there's this one gentleman who's who's kind of moving from stool to stool and playing the guitar and kind of looks like me, but way Hipper, way cooler, you know, way, way more Hipper like he looks, like he knows what he's doing too.

Speaker 2: 21:52

And I ended up just kind of like somehow face to face with him, you know, with moving around the people and stuff, and just like like you and I are on the screen and and I just blurred it out Like hey, I'm this 50 year old dude and I want to buy a guitar and I want to learn how to play Do you have any advice for what I should get? And he goes get the red one. And you know, it's like someone speaking code, like it's like he speaks, speaking a language and I'm supposed to understand and get the red one. And I'm like, oh sure, of course, get the red one. I don't know what does he mean? And I'm staring at him and he goes you know the one you can't take your eyes off from across the room, the one you want to hold and never let go, the red one.

Speaker 2: 22:41

And I was like wow, that's so profound. But at the same time I knew exactly what guitar. Yeah, like boom, I was done. Two minutes later I was at the cash register. I turned around, went over, grabbed it off the off the shelf, double check, the price tag went Whoa, Okay, I guess this is the one.

Speaker 1: 23:02

And was it actually red?

Speaker 2: 23:05

And weirdly, it was very reddish, not bright red, but it had a very red tone to it. It's a Kowa wood KOA, like a Hawaiian hardwood and has a very reddish tint to it. So it was also very strange that he said red. Yeah, because it was the. It was the, probably one of the. You know, there might have been a red guitar in the room, but this was the closest natural and as a result of that, you know, I really feel like when I look back that person, almost like I could say they weren't even really there, like they're an angel. Yes, I got truly in my own mind. That person didn't exist and was just there for that moment to give me the courage to take the step right. I had committed to the universe and the universe met me halfway. Yeah, what a beautiful story.

Speaker 1: 23:58

I love that.

Speaker 2: 24:00

You know it's, it's crazy. I I then got back to Thailand and I Googled, I was like I gotta find a teacher. And you know I'm in Thailand and and I knew I didn't want to tie teacher For different, for different reasons, and but and I had a fancy for a Filipino, because Filipinos, the English is like almost a second language there. It's a very you know people. The Filipinos speak great English typically and they're musically for genetic freaks Like every Filipino's got, like like not every Filipino, but like it seems like everyone I've met has got a voice of gold and they can all play a musical instrument after 15 minutes of trying. It's the weirdest thing.

Speaker 1: 24:46

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 24:47

So I was like I'm gonna find me a Filipino. And I found this old Facebook post, this old kind of like this, this number, and I chased the number down, found it and I called this person and I met this guy, alonzo, and we've been brothers since the day we met.

Speaker 2: 25:06

Amazing 10 years ago, an amazing human. He shouldn't also another person who shouldn't, like, shouldn't be alive. He's the. He's the son of a priest and his mother had him out of wedlock. I mean, he's like, like, he's not supposed to be here, yeah, and he's the most amazing person you'll ever meet.

Speaker 2: 25:31

And and so he, he and I, sat down and we did, we started practicing and you know this change right, this again coming back to just saying I'm now going to be a musician, I'm now going to pick up guitar and I'm going to do it every Sunday and, man, it was painful. I am not going to like Catherine, I stand, I still I'm, I still play, but I'm terrible and it hurts and it still hurts. I don't understand. After 10 years it still hurts and you know. But along the way, he was telling me we should write a song. You should write, let's write a song. And you know, I couldn't even play two courts. It was like the third, fourth week. He was saying this and after a while I went.

Speaker 2: 26:18

You know I have some words written down in my drawer from the book I was writing from a guy who told me I should be a speaker. It's, let's go see if, because I, like, I write poetically, a bit like lyrically. The way I write is a little bit fluffy. You know, I can see how, like there's probably some words in there we can get a couple of verses. And so I went and picked up one of the one of the you know all these scratch papers, and we opened them up and got a highlighter out and before I knew it, two Sundays, we wrote a song and I was like whoa, what happened? I'm now on fire. This is the most amazing thing.

Speaker 2: 27:01

Let's write another song and very quickly I ran out of words to steal from. Yeah, so here I am with this music teacher and you know, we wrote a couple of songs and I've got no more. I don't have any more words. I don't know how to write a song. I know how to steal from my words. So I start writing the book, no choice. If I want to write more, if I want more songs, I have to actually look at the book, and I hadn't looked at this, the structure of the book or the idea behind the book, in a couple of years. And so that started me down this journey of writing this book, dear God, and putting the structure together. So this change is a great thing when you're in charge, because you might start off in charge, but you very quickly follow these breadcrumbs and it leads you to the most magical places.

Speaker 1: 28:01

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, there's a couple of things that actually you said during the beautiful story. One thing you said was that something that has caught your attention several times is the question what is going to take me to the level? What's going to take me to be a different person yeah, almost a different person, and that's very interesting and very strong, and I'm just wondering if you have any idea where that came from or when that first started kicking in for you.

Speaker 2: 28:39

It's more me looking back now because I never felt it in the moment, but I'm trying to explain. Why would I these are some, actually some pretty In some cases. Leaving my accounting job was just straight up stupid, yeah, like just properly stupid things to do. There's no way of, there's no sugarcoating that, catherine, nobody does that. No correct thinking human would ever do that. And it was a bit of, I think, maybe being trapped or being in a box and maybe I want to be in control or I want to be a little bit free. Yes, I don't know, but I do look back now.

Speaker 1: 29:19

When you look back, you can see that you're following something there, and that's yeah.

Speaker 2: 29:27

And I don't know where it's leading. I am following these breadcrumbs now. So it is there. I was writing this book, so now I'm writing this book. I've never written a book. I've got to put structure behind it, and so I end up falling in love with it. Amazing, this is the strange part, right, I fell in love with the concept of the book and the beauty of. For me, it was the beauty of what I had found, and so for me it was this there's four parts to the book. The first one is the book of self, and it's your yesterdays, your todays and your tomorrows, and I just love that idea of that conversation we have in our mind and the happiness and, for me, my past, what I'm thinking about today, what I'm planning, all of that is so powerful for me as a person and up to my point in life, those were things that I tried, that were important. And then the next part of the book is others between you and another person, between you and another human and that was I came to acceptance, forgiveness and compassion.

Speaker 1: 30:42

Oh yeah.

Speaker 2: 30:44

Don't know where those came from. Those were the construct of what I thought interpersonally accepting you for who you are, how you got there. I don't have to agree with you, but I can accept a lot of your. It's who you are and what you believe in and everything, and I can have compassion for who you are. I can be compassionate and you know and I go into what compassion means to me. In the letters you know it's kind of, and in these concepts, as I'm asking God, do I get this right? Dear God, isn't compassion really this?

Speaker 1: 31:20

I see like you're having a chat with God about it.

Speaker 2: 31:23

I'm having a chat with God. I figured this, I figured everything out, Catherine, in life, and so I'm just checking with God. You know, like yo.

Speaker 1: 31:30

Love it.

Speaker 2: 31:31

Hey, bro, isn't really acceptance just this, and it's kind of like a nice personal chat. It's like these letters are right.

Speaker 1: 31:38

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 31:39

And as I got to the humanity part. So if it's, you know, I've got I'm responsible for myself, I've got this interpersonal relationship with people I encounter and then I've got kind of this humanity view. How do I present myself to the race, the human race, humanity as a group? And you know, for me there it's love. You know, go out to the world with a loving heart, you know. And also, you know, in love with yourself. You got to be in love with yourself but then that allows you to have this expanse of love for other people.

Speaker 1: 32:16

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 32:17

To have karma leave, treat people and things in the world like you want to be treated, you know, leave stuff a little bit better than you found it, including people. And then the last one was service and to go out with a service mind, a service heart and how to serve humanity, and that doesn't have to be in a deprecating way or, you know, you don't have to be some service dog. There's a lot of ways that that can take shape and can be very powerful. And the last one was really was you know your relationship with the universe, with God, with Mother Earth? Whatever your spiritual language would be, you've got to have faith, hope, and my language was prayer or conversation. You know you got to have a connection. You got to have a conversation with the universe. You know you can't just sit and believe that. You know there are people that do believe there's nothing and you're dying, you're dead and you know and that's it. And this whole thing was created by a bunch of monkeys on a typewriter.

Speaker 2: 33:26

I'm not that person. I think everything is connected. I think we're here for a purpose and I think every, most people have got some language they use for spirituality or faith, and that's your prayer conversation with you know Mother Earth, or even yourself in a way, because if you follow Aaron, is it Neville Goddard? Yeah, we are God. You know also, the Neville Goddard is a pretty interesting character and he talks about that. So the I am part is you are God anyway, your own voice and your own thoughts. So, anyway, that's the construct of the book and I fell in love with it. Wrote that, and I don't know what happened, but I have a theory that God has got a very funny sense of humor, a very twisted, sick and funny sense of humor, and decided that, yeah, these are great questions, ken, and you got good theories. Now what you should do is you should make these stories, these letters, into questions and go ask your fellow man. And that's how the jar was born.

Speaker 1: 34:36

Ah, I see.

Speaker 2: 34:38

Sick and twisted sense of humor.

Speaker 1: 34:41

Well, he's saying yeah, he's. But he's also then saying or she is also then saying yeah, yeah, whatever yeah. You know, non-binary God is saying whatever it is. It's sorry, I don't know why I said that.

Speaker 2: 34:57

I love that. The non-binary God, God, might have an issue with that. Like I'm not, I'm so far past binary. I'm linear. I don't know what you are.

Speaker 1: 35:05

I've just transcended, you know.

Speaker 2: 35:07

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm past all of that.

Speaker 1: 35:11

But it makes sense. He's saying if you really believe in everything you've said in this book, yes, Of course you would go out and ask your fellow man. Like you know, you really, really painted yourself into that corner, didn't you?

Speaker 2: 35:23

Yes, catherine, and that's the issue, right. It's like how the heck did this happen? And you know, I'm the story of the guitar, like how I started writing, how I started writing the guitar story of buying the guitar, meeting Alonzo, doing the journey, you know, and writing the book right, and then coming, like I know all of those trigger points, I know all of those inflection points. I don't know where the jar idea came from.

Speaker 1: 35:56

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 35:57

I still don't. I cannot recall where I came up with the idea to write the questions, put them in a jar and drive around the country and interview 444 people. This part is really strange to me and I cannot. I've pretty much given up that it's not there, that it's and again, like I said, it's just an inspiration somewhere.

Speaker 1: 36:18

That section where you said love and service. Are you seriously? You know that's obviously gonna end up with you doing something in service to humanity, isn't it? You know and you've got all these questions. To me that looks like a straight line.

Speaker 2: 36:37

I almost yeah, it's easier for you because I'm in it right, exactly, I'm in the middle of it. I can't see over the headline.

Speaker 1: 36:48

I've got to say something I really notice in. I'm so enjoying your story. I haven't been saying very much because it's just so rich and juicy. Something I notice is that at all these different points you've described, there were moments where you could have taken the safe option or you could have taken the really interesting, challenging option. And you took the interesting and challenging option and you very often had no idea where it was gonna take you and you did it nevertheless yes.

Speaker 1: 37:17

That to me is like a sort of very fascinating quality of your capacity that you seem to have, because what that's done is that's then taken you into another realm or into another world where there's a lot more information and interesting things taking place. So, of course, you let them and grow, and of course that then offers you another set of opportunities. So you seem to have an extraordinary openness.

Speaker 2: 37:47

is the word coming to you.

Speaker 1: 37:50

Does that seem like that?

Speaker 2: 37:52

I'm very open. For sure, moving to other countries and jumping into that culturally, just from left to right, I think I had obviously some of those qualities, the traits were there, but I've stretched that muscle for sure you were and learn to know you are correct. I have learned to accept that I may not be able to see what's around the corner, but I know it's gonna be okay and it may not be pretty, but it'll be all right, but it's gonna be okay and I'm in that moment. Now I've done about 320, 340 interviews. I've got about 100 interviews left on the project, which seems like a lot, but when you started zero and you end up with 320, like 320 interviews in people's homes around the country, it's a giant accomplishment in a way, and it's at the end I'm burning my money. It's been an amazing journey. I'm super committed to this thing right, and just seeing where it leads is so interesting. The people I've met and I never imagined I'd be a mental health person, that I would start something along like the JAR Foundation and become a mental health person and an advocate, and really an advocate. I started the journey with the JAR April of last year, so I came back. I left Asia in January 2022.

Speaker 2: 39:46

So kind of post COVID and landed and I started in April the journey in the Pacific Northwest and just started traveling across just doing this up and down between cities and I would go to every state capital. That was one of so the 48 states and I was gonna go to 100, I'm going to 111 cities is the idea, interview the 444 people and it's just absolutely an amazing journey, but it's not without its struggles. I mean, it is colossally difficult, it's lonely, it's tiring. I've had, very surprisingly to me and what I didn't even see for eight months when I was in it, was the PTSD or that compassion fatigue from hearing people's stories. I have real heart-wrenching face-to-face and I'm hearing it like a therapist in a way.

Speaker 2: 40:58

So some of that compassion fatigue that surprised me, that caught me. I was not prepared for that, I didn't see that at all and I didn't see it when it was happening. I took a break in December. I got off the road in December after eight months and I just kind of stared out the window for about a week and trying to process what I'd done to myself and to do all of this and it was a sanity check, in a way, to Catherine. There are changes, not without its moments of doubt. Did I do the right thing? Where will this end up? So you commented about? I always had the ability to kind of know it's going to be okay, but it's not like I'm just sitting in there and willy-nilly and like it's not all sunshine.

Speaker 1: 42:01

But that's because you're breaking through to another level, what you've just described. Somebody who exposes themselves to that, what you call compassion fatigue, which I think is a really good question. I think someone who exposes themselves to that consistently over a long period, that's going to change a person. It's going to really tune up their soul. All right, so you can't come out of that. Not effective, can you?

Speaker 2: 42:31

There's no escape. Right, you're that close. It's too, catherine, over. The Zoom call is one thing, but the physical proximity of the emotion, right, there's an energy. We are all connected. And you put two of us in a room and we're going to go through an experience with the jar, and it's an experience because the person's literally pulling these cards out and just answering right away and boy, the universe serves up great cards and the story comes out and we share an energy, we share that moment and I connect. I physically connect with people on an electrical, emotional, like this physical level. We connect and I own part of that story in a way. Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1: 43:19

And you're giving them a great gift by doing it, because you're not a therapist. You're not there. There's no indication that you're there to fix them or give them a label for what's wrong with them, or medicate them. You're just listening.

Speaker 2: 43:39

This is the one thing I never realized, catherine, for a long time. It is a really powerful gift I'm giving people, and I don't I mean people appreciate it. A lot of people really appreciate it, but not everybody understands Like they might appreciate the moment and the chance and it's great, but I don't think they really truly understand that it's a chance to, it's an autobiography and it's digital and it's forever and it's for your family.

Speaker 1: 44:10

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 44:11

It's not for you, yeah, it's for everybody else. It's for the listeners and, ultimately, for me. I think if I could have had my father like I, would listen to his episode of the jar a hundred times.

Speaker 1: 44:26

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 44:28

I would. I'd die for that, to listen to that, and I got a. We had a powerful message. About two months ago I interviewed a gentleman who was a talks to animals, super connected animals. He can like cows and he can tell you what they're thinking. He's just crazy interesting person and when I interviewed him he didn't know it, but he had cancer and shortly after the interview he got diagnosed and he passed away a few months later and his wife sent us just the most beautiful message that she had just listened to the interview and to hear his voice and the questions he was answering about life, who he was, what he thought about love, forgiveness. You know, to have that view of him and to be able to listen to it and understand him, like, oh, I think I cried for like 30 minutes, yeah, just thinking about it. Right, the gift, yeah, and I I'm not done with the journey.

Speaker 2: 45:49

This is the strange part. I, you know I've I'm in the middle of it. Still I'm in the middle of it and you know I've taken a, I'm going to take a break and I'm trying to rearrange the finances and find out how to you know how to monetize this in a way where I'm not going to burn my money, keep going. And I've got another, the mental health podcast, and so, to kind of to come back to the commitment piece, my daughter's been helping me as a producer. It's been a lovely, like an amazing, accidental experience that she would have time, because she's not a this is not what she does, she's an animal person and so she's, and so she's going to be doing her animal thing now come January. So she's going to transition out of the show and she's been a big rock and so I sent I sent a message to Alonzo, my guitar guy. He's, interestingly, alonzo's become my, he's become the audio person Because he's he's very good, he's a music guy, he records, he's. You know, he's technically very good at this and he's been a consultant for me, helped make sure the audio is good because it's traveling show and I set up. You know I don't have the beauty, the consistency of the production, and so it needs help and and it's been fun because Alonzo's by my side Every time I start a podcast with a guest, I know Alonzo's in the room.

Speaker 2: 47:27

In a week or two He'll be hearing the story, he'll be sitting there. So I always, like I always started off hey, alonzo, how's it going? What's happening in Thailand? How are you, my buddy? I love you and so it's kind of this fun, it's fun thing we play. And so I sent him a note and I said, hey, I'm gonna take a break, and you know that that that I'm starting January and I don't know what it's going to look like. And he sent me this note back and he said I am with you till the end. We will finish what we started. Wow, amazing Right To have. Like I don't care where we're going, I'm with you.

Speaker 1: 48:10

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 48:11

And that's how you know whatever you're doing is good, right, if people around you? You lose people because of natural things. But who's that person that knows everything, he knows the whole story.

Speaker 1: 48:26

But, and also for whatever reason, it's the right thing for him in the cycle of his life right now. I think that's often the case, isn't it? You know, it's one thing to appreciate it, but it's another thing, which is does this answer a need that they have or a call that they have in their life?

Speaker 2: 48:47

We are so bound together, catherine, it's. You know, I helped him, he helped. Like we met and we were brothers. We couldn't be more opposite. Like I mean, he's from some tiny island in the middle of the ocean, right. Like actually he's from Philippines, but he's from, like, a pretty small island. I mean he shouldn't even be born, like he's totally a forbidden person, right. But somehow we met and we were supposed to meet Like I should, like it's like we were like we're friends forever and he's just a great human.

Speaker 2: 49:24

And to get those words, like for someone to send you a note, but oh, we're going to finish what we started.

Speaker 2: 49:30

Like I'm not alone, yeah, and I think it is that commitment you know. So you know when you do feel alone, when you're in change, I think for listeners, you know you think you're alone sometimes through these changes. You know but I kind of call this you might be in the tunnel, you feel like you're in the darkness and, yeah, maybe you see a little light at the end. Maybe it's just pitch black, but the reality is, if you, if you reach out your arms, spread your fingers, you're going to find another hand. You know we're all in the dark together and you know, alonzo's that hand, for me one of those hands, and I think it's from that change and then the commitment as we talked a little bit about. I think when you change is one thing doing change willy nilly, you know, changing is good, but you got to do change with a purpose. Yeah, I think the one thing distinction is you don't just change willy nilly because that's not going to that, that does not end well.

Speaker 1: 50:38

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 50:39

You know all of my changes, that I did have some push and some vision and some, like you said, and I knew where I was going to land was going to be safe. It's up to me to make it work. But I wasn't going to put myself in danger and it wasn't changed just for the sake of change, not like I call it, a willy nilly change, if that makes sense.

Speaker 1: 51:03

It does. Yes, yes, amazing. Honestly, I can. I could talk to you for hours and hours on end, but we're coming up towards starting to run out. Yeah, so I'm going to switch on to, and actually people want to know more about you. They can listen to your podcast and tune into your music and read your book. You know there's plenty, so we don't have to give them everything today.

Speaker 2: 51:27

Absolutely.

Speaker 1: 51:30

So there's a lot of people in leadership positions in the world at the moment, and I'm including people who are trying to be good leaders in their own lives.

Speaker 2: 51:38

Yes.

Speaker 1: 51:39

And I personally like to believe that most of these people are trying to be part of the solution and a lot of will be very aligned with a lot of the things you've been talking about, and I just wanted to ask you, if you I'm going to give you a moment in a moment to Hmm, is there something you'd like to say to those people right now in the world? Is there something specific you'd like to say to those people?

Speaker 2: 52:09

Yeah, I, and I think it'll. I'll use the idea that I am a different person. This has changed me, which you, which you rightly kind of observed, that would have to right. And I look back on myself as an executive and as a leader and, you know, I wish I had more compassion for people in the roles and I can look back at so many individuals and so many individual moments where the corporate objective or something on a, you know, on a PowerPoint, was supposed to know some number was supposed to be hit or some activity was supposed to be done. And you know, and I look back how we looked at people and thought of people together in the room, like myself or the CEO or the executive team, and we talk about a person and I think what we missed was you know what's going on in their life.

Speaker 2: 53:07

We just never know what's happening with somebody in their own personal life and I wish I had more, just, more grace for people and to give them more grace and understanding that you know, when you show up to work, we're seeing part of the person and asking them to do a certain role, a certain thing, and that's a lot dependent upon where their head is at, where their heart's at, where they're, where they're physically here but they mentally they may be somewhere else and just give some grace to people and love on staff more. You know, just walk around and just be a little bit more uplifting and you know that will empower people to be better employees and to show up better at work, making it a loving, warm place, because life outside is hard and life at home is hard. You know there's conflict in all those places and let's try to reduce the conflict at work and make that a place where you know things are good and you're heard, you feel heard and you know people do give you some grace and they do ask like how are you doing this week? You know, are you feeling overwhelmed? Are you underwhelmed? You got too much work? What can we do to help?

Speaker 2: 54:21

I want to make you know those kind of conversations. I should have had my one on once.

Speaker 1: 54:27

Beautiful. Thank you so much. I love it. So the final question I always ask people, Ken, is we've had quite an extraordinary conversation today. Has there been a favorite part of it for you, of our conversation?

Speaker 2: 54:44

I, catherine, I've told my story a few times, but I think every time I tell it I do find something else about myself, and so I really appreciate your structure. You know, kind of going through this, the change, when change with a purpose, and me articulating what you picked up, which is why am I doing these changes and what am I searching for? What am I looking to do or impact, how am I looking to impact myself and the why. And I think that is that as I articulated. I think I was looking for something to change myself, to grow.

Speaker 2: 55:26

I'm supposed to be somebody there's like I'm not that human yet, and I think we're all capable of this kind of stuff. Where I'm, you know I don't have much time, right, we're only here for a short time and I don't know who I'm supposed to meet. Who is that person I'm supposed to touch or help or affect, and is it, am I that person yet? And so I think it is. This is so I really appreciate the structure, because it forces me to reexamine who I am and why I'm doing what I'm doing, and try to make sure I don't lose sight of that purpose in that road, if you will.

Speaker 1: 56:08

Yeah, yeah, beautiful. Thank you so much.

Speaker 2: 56:12

And where would you like?

Speaker 1: 56:14

where would you like people to go if they want to find you, Ken?

Speaker 2: 56:17

Yeah, I mean, really the best place is the jarlive. It's just wwwthejarlive. You can find there's a lot of links there to the book, to the pod, to the one podcast To find me Everything is right there and then just Google me. I'm kind of I've got enough junk out there where I've got my own SEO going just by following.

Speaker 1: 56:42

Brilliant. Thank you so much, ken. This has been an absolute delight, and I feel like I'm going to listen back to this conversation more than once, because there are so many juicy bits in there.

Speaker 2: 56:52

And.

Speaker 1: 56:53

I love your trailblazing that you're doing. It's fantastic, so thank you so much for sharing it with us today.

Speaker 2: 57:01

Thanks for having me, Catherine, and giving me the platform. I truly appreciate it.

Speaker 1: 57:10

Thank you for listening to Truth and Transcendence and thank you for supporting the show by rating, reviewing, subscribing, buying me a coffee and telling a friend. If you'd like to know more about my work, you can find out about mentoring, workshops and energy treatments on beingspaceworld. Have a wonderful week and I'll see you next time.