Ep 116: Antony Sammeroff - Seven Big Pharma Myths Debunked!

Ever wondered how to reclaim your health from a medical system that seems more interested in managing symptoms than curing diseases? Join me, as I sit down with special guest Antony Sammeroff, to debunk the strong myths surrounding Big Pharma and challenge your perceptions about institutional corruption in mainstream medicine.  Antony, with his unconventional approach to wellness and gripping tales of his experiences, makes for an enlightening and captivating conversation.

As we dissect the narrative around Big Pharma, we uncover some unsettling truths about mainstream medicine, bad science, and harmful treatments.  Anthony's unexpected adventure in Edinburgh serves as a poignant anecdote, proving that sometimes, venturing beyond conventional norms leads to the relief and answers we've been seeking. Our discussion navigates the complexities of our body's metabolic processes and the potential harm caused by accumulated cellular waste from processed foods. We journey through topics as varied as the decline in infectious disease mortality, the benefits of fasting, and the importance of hydration.

In the final part of our discourse, we brave the challenging terrain of healthcare economics. Education about our own healthcare is pivotal and, in our conversation, we shed light on the perils of quick-fix, medication-based solutions. We emphasize the critical need for self-support and institutional backing in our quest for health. Join us in this riveting discussion and equip yourself with the knowledge to confidently reclaim your health from a system that has for too long, held it hostage.

Where to find out more about Antony's thought-provoking book "7 Big Pharma Myths Debunked!" and pick up your free copy of the teaser version:
7pharmamyths.com

Transcript

Catherine Llewellyn: 0:02

Truth and Transcendence, brought to you by being Space with Catherine Llewellyn. Truth and Transcendence, episode 116, with special guest Anthony Samaroff. Anthony, if you haven't come across him, is a psychotherapist and economist from Glasgow in Scotland, in the UK. He's best known as author of Universal Basic Income for and against, and he's a popular speaker, writer and podcaster.

Catherine Llewellyn: 0:44

Last time Anthony came on the show, we spoke about the importance of speaking out, so, not surprisingly, I've invited Anthony back to discuss his new book Seven Big Pharma Myths Debunked. In the book, he exposes how institutional corruption in mainstream medicine is bound to turn out bad science and harmful treatments. What's more, he shows how we can reclaim our health one by one and in doing so, fix the system itself. And you can actually download the book for free on SevenPharmaMythscom and that will be in the show notes. Anthony's perspective, I believe, is a refreshing alternative to mainstream views and, as such, invaluable for any of us facing new and unpredictable challenges today, or even facing the same old challenges that we've always been facing. So today's theme is about big pharma myths, and why do we even care about that?

Catherine Llewellyn: 1:44

So, Anthony, thank you so much for coming back on the show.

Antony Sammeroff: 1:48

Thank you so much for having me, catherine. It's very exciting to be back with you. We scheduled this once before, but for unpredictable reasons, I was caught up in Edinburgh. I actually ended up out I don't know how much or how few details your listeners want, but out in the park for most of the night because I couldn't get back to somewhere to stay, and that was unpredictable and interesting, and cold and also made me very, very grateful for things that we take for granted every day, like actually being able to sleep inside a house, let alone in a bed, rather than on a park bench. So I thought, wow, some people have to do this every day. So, no matter, here we are at last, and I believe that everything happens well. It's always a good time in the present moment, if you choose, to make it one.

Catherine Llewellyn: 2:49

Absolutely right. And also I think that little anecdote is an example of the fact that you're willing to go outside the boundaries of normal, which I think is a great thing. I think we should all do that some of the time, and if we can't do that, then it's good to expose ourselves to people who do.

Antony Sammeroff: 3:09

Yeah, I enjoyed my little adventure that night. I have to say I was very thankful when I could go to McDonald's and get a charge in my phone because it opened and eventually one of my friends woke up and invited me around to their house. So yeah, I've done so many crazy things in my life. I've stayed in Mexico and India and done writing this book. In fact, I've written this book in Mexico and India and other places and it makes for a rich life and sometimes it's good to not have all the comforts that we have.

Antony Sammeroff: 3:52

This is actually relevant to pharmaceutical medicine. Actually, that's right For the main part. Pharmaceuticals don't actually cure diseases. They mitigate symptoms. But sometimes they mitigate symptoms while the patient gets worse. For example, if you're suffering from a magnesium deficiency, no amount of drugs will cure that deficiency. If you dehydrate it, no number of drugs will get water into yourselves. So you could call a doctor and come along and mask the symptom with a pharmaceutical drug and you might think wow, the wonders of modern medicine, my condition is getting better as far as the disease is concerned. You're getting worse, you just feel better.

Antony Sammeroff: 4:41

So we've been accustomed to not experiencing any discomfort in this life. The chairs we sit on, shorten the muscles in our legs, unlike in indigenous cultures where they squat with ease. We have an awful hard time when we go to a yoga class. All of these things, everything has its place. But I feel like I really need to make my random story segue into the topic of conversation, this desire for comfort, talking about doing crazy things. I've fasted for long periods and gone on juice cleanses, this, that, and the other People get symptoms, a headache or something like that, and they think, oh, this isn't for me. Maybe juicing isn't for me or fasting isn't for me, maybe I should just drink another glass of water. The thing is, if you really are detoxing, of course, in mainstream medical science they don't believe that this is a thing. I can explain why it is a thing within France to biology. If it's really true that toxins are coming out of your cells into your bloodstream to be taken away through your stools and your urine, then it would make sense that you would feel a little bit of discomfort. So, yes, it's nice to have the choice to have comfort.

Antony Sammeroff: 6:27

Actually, this is what yoga was invented for, to a degree, because in the days it used to be called Raja Yoga, which means King Yoga. It was yoga for kings, because most people in those days did hard physical labor, but kings did not. So they get out of shape if they didn't. So they would have a yogi come and teach the royal family to do these exercises every day so that they were physically strong and physically capable, because everyone else was working in a field or mining minerals or doing something that was physically demanding. That was to ensure that everyone was a physical fitness. Most people couldn't run, couldn't climb a tree to save their butt from a tiger. If it ran after them these days I'm pretty sure that I couldn't. But so, yes, I guess that's my end. It's nice when I get an end like this, because it makes every show different.

Catherine Llewellyn: 7:39

That's right. Well, thank you, that thing you said about fasting and detoxing. I had the unusual honor of growing up in a nature cure family, lovely. My father used to put us on a fruit diet for a week.

Antony Sammeroff: 7:55

Yes, a whole family Wonderful.

Catherine Llewellyn: 7:58

I remember going into the grocery store with him, me and three other children, right so there's four children standing there and he says could we have 150 apples please and 200 oranges and do you want anything?

Antony Sammeroff: 8:16

else. No, that's all we want, and the guy would look at him.

Catherine Llewellyn: 8:19

They'd look at us, the children, and we'd look back at him and say, yeah, we think he's mad as well, right? But we trust that he knows what he's doing. Then we would go back and when we were ill, we were put to bed and fasted, basically.

Antony Sammeroff: 8:33

Yeah, exactly that's what they used to do.

Catherine Llewellyn: 8:36

And it was very uncomfortable because I wanted to be, out running in the sunshine and often he would notice that we were not well before we noticed. I'm fine, I'm fine. No, you're not. You know, you've got your glands are up in your neck, or?

Catherine Llewellyn: 8:51

your temperature, but I can't feel you Right, and that's the interesting thing with what you're saying, which is when you only pick up on discomfort and try to get rid of that, you're catching it later than you could. If you catch it earlier than that when your health is not great, not yet uncomfortable.

Antony Sammeroff: 9:13

That's right.

Antony Sammeroff: 9:14

He was doing all animals fast when they're sick, drinking only water. When you're a kid and you get sick, you don't want to eat. But your mum or your dad well intentions this. Oh, come on, you need to get your strength here I have some food. And Hippocrates, the the great doctor, the first position that we acknowledge said everyone knows, let thy food be thy medicine and thy medicine be thy food. But they don't know that the next line was but to feed, while sick is to feed one sickness. So they knew, and lots of people knew about fasting in the 19th century.

Antony Sammeroff: 9:56

There's lots of folk cures that even used to be in the Merck manual, things the likes of Well I mean, whenever I speak to someone about castor oil they're like you know from the older generation. They're like oh, my mum was never done using castor oil for this. That and the other people used to know that it was a remedy. Turpentine was in the Merck manual for basically everything. Now it's only in their Vicks Vapor, vapor, rug Rub, vicks, vapor Rub. Apart from anything else they say it's dangerous.

Antony Sammeroff: 10:30

And coffee enemas going back in the medical literature until the back to the 1840s for detoxifying the liver. Because they don't know the mechanism. There's a couple of people who have got hypotheses as to why it works. But because they don't know exactly why it works, they like to say it's nonsense and mainstream medicine, despite the fact that doctors used to know about all of this stuff and use it frequently Not just doctors. That's why the thing is, anyone can make this stuff at home if they've got the know how. So it doesn't present such a big commercial opportunity. And these things were sort of started to be taken out the medical curriculum because John D Rockefeller, the first billionaire, bought into the. Well, I mean, standard Oil was a, you know, petrochemicals. Pharmaceuticals were made by petrochemicals and they bought into the. I don't know if maybe his children bought into the university system. There's the Flexner report in America People can look it up where they shut down half of the medical schools in America and ensured that only the pharmaceutical model was taught, whereas before that when was that Anthony?

Antony Sammeroff: 11:48

Sort of that's a good question, and kind of earlier on in the 20th century, let's see. When did the Flexner report come out?

Catherine Llewellyn: 11:58

Yeah, because that's interesting.

Antony Sammeroff: 12:00

And.

Catherine Llewellyn: 12:01

I think most people, yeah, as much history you know about 1910.

Antony Sammeroff: 12:06

Yeah, 1910.

Catherine Llewellyn: 12:07

Yeah, doctors aren't aware of this stuff.

Antony Sammeroff: 12:11

And so. So yeah, what that was was a book length report of medical education in the United States and Canada. Rent by Flexner was designed with Strix intention of pushing the pharmaceutical model, which is you know, one disease, one remedy. One disease, one symptom, one remedy. You know, maybe one bug to kill off. And the thing is, as I said, pharmaceuticals don't have any nutritional elements in them.

Antony Sammeroff: 12:51

So, while they can mitigate symptoms and give comfort to the patient, we would really want to know what was causing their disease and address it at the level of the causal, while you, maybe, if you could mediate their symptoms in the short term to give them some comfort. While they do that and usually it's things like but, but okay, the doctors will put a label on a symptom. See, if you came into the doctor's office and you said I've got pain in my heart, and he said I know what that is, you've got pain in your heart and inflammation, you'd look at him like he was loopy. But that's all my. Carditis means, right, pain, pain and inflammation of the heart. So arthritis is inflammation of the joints, fibromyalgia pain in the muscle fibers. These are not actually diseases, these are descriptions of symptoms, right? But because they give it a fancy name in Latin. You think that we've identified your disease? They've not, because if you do have arthritis, it could be for various different reasons. Maybe your body's too acidic and the acid wastes are forming and are collecting in the knuckles and wearing away at the tissues and that's giving you pain, which is toxicity. Or you're starving and you need a collagen supplement to rebuild the tissues. There's something that your body needs that your body is not getting or you've used it wrong or you suffered some trauma psychological that is stopping your body from healing properly because it's stuck and it's fixed in a certain way, like I used to be gluten intolerant. I'm no longer gluten intolerant, but I don't think about it as I'm not gluten intolerant.

Antony Sammeroff: 14:59

My digestion is working better. That means I feel better. I've got more energy than I did now at 37 than I did 10 years ago at 27, because my digestive function wasn't good. If that was the case, say I, go to the dentist this is a holistic view and he says you've got bone loss under the gum. The dentist would never think oh, maybe that's because your digestion has been running poorly for 15 years or more and you didn't actually take the nutrients out of your food so your body could rebuild healthy bones. He's a dentist. He's trained to think about dental things. You get headaches, so you go to the GP and he gives you some pills, but they mess with your hormones. So you go to the endocrinologist and he gives you something for your hormones, but then that mess that throws something else off. So you're at the neurologist going why can't, I think straight? The neurologist gives you something else, but that affects your digestion. So you go to the gastrointestinal specialist and he's got something else for you. It's the medical merry-go-round or the medical money go around.

Catherine Llewellyn: 16:12

Very sad.

Antony Sammeroff: 16:15

Yeah, but go on. Sorry, what we want to say.

Catherine Llewellyn: 16:18

When did you first start noticing this whole dynamic that you're talking about?

Antony Sammeroff: 16:24

Well, I didn't do that well with mainstream medicine no one really does as a child, because I have got dreadful eczema up and down in my legs. I mean they didn't even know that. This is how ridiculous it is. For a long time doctors were saying food is all calories in, calories out. Nowadays, if you're lucky, the doctor might say well, cut out things like wheat, gluten, dairy, if you get eczema, and see how you get on and it will mitigate people's symptoms. There's a deeper level of understanding where you go. Well, a lot of people are not getting these diseases because they don't eat those foods that they've got intolerance to, and that's good and it will give the body a time to heal. But there's another question, which is why are you intolerant to foods that you're not intolerant to? Why is everyone suddenly incapable of processing this stuff? Yeah, but I mean they wouldn't even think in mainstream medicine to check your diet, which is ridiculous. I stopped getting those symptoms when I stopped eating certain foods later on in my 20s and 30s. Now I can eat them, thank God. So basically, I was in and out with eczema once I got so infected I got Empatigo infection and they had nothing for you. They can give you steroid creams and things like that, but it will always come back and these things have side effects. They're not good for you.

Antony Sammeroff: 18:03

So later on I had a couple of incidents with the doctor, I think yeah, no. So I had blotching on my chest and he'd give me something for that. It would go away. It came back. I asked why did it come back? And he kind of shrugged his shoulders and he was like you know, you know poor luck. And then he paused and went poor care. And I was like as if like putting it on me for not taking care of it properly, and I wish that I had the self-awareness to go right. Excuse me, could you just explain to me what you mean by that? Like, in what way have I not taken care of myself properly? And you know, same doctor. And then he was going to put another time.

Antony Sammeroff: 18:50

You know, I was going through the vacillations that I did with my teens and he was wants to put me on a antidepressant and I said, okay, well, just let me do a little bit of reading first online. And he's like okay, then, doctor, so these things prick my ear up. Now I know all of that was my digestion, right? So that was my first everything the blotching on the chest, the eczema, the depression but this and I was reading. I did read. I read a very good book called the Medical Matthew. It's hard to get a hard copy of it now, but I think it's available in PDF and I guess okay.

Antony Sammeroff: 19:35

So all of these things contributed to me seeing feeling like the doctors didn't really know what they were doing. Then I went to see a naturopath on the Isle of Wight based on a recommendation and he said that will be your digestion and he gave me like some probiotics, prebiotics to feed the bacteria and maybe some digestive enzymes, and that really worked and it cleared everything up mucus and things like that. But I also see that as quite a quite a quick fix as well now, from the natural point of view, because what you really want to do is rehabilitate the whole digestive system. But at that point I was like, okay, I think it was about 20, 22 something, maybe, yeah, maybe 22, 24. At that point I knew that there was something seriously wrong with the pharmaceutical model. Yeah, the way that doctors were being trained, because they didn't know the stuff that he knew.

Catherine Llewellyn: 20:47

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I understand completely and my, as I mentioned, my upbringing. My father was a naturopath and osteopath and if ever the doctor came around which was very, very rare, I think the doctor was frightened of him and gave him pills and things for us, he would just put them down the toilet and not use them.

Catherine Llewellyn: 21:11

And I remember he would come in for supper and say well, someone's just come to see me who's been going to the mainstream medicine for 30 years and they've been told there's no cure. And I've just had them do a salt bath, and for three weeks and they're fixed, you know, and now we're working on what caused it. So I was sort of steeped in these stories right from the beginning. So to me it's you know, hearing about your book, I think, well, that makes perfect sense.

Catherine Llewellyn: 21:42

I think for most people that's just not the case. Most people grow up in a situation where it's all about symptom really better symptom feel better.

Antony Sammeroff: 21:53

Yeah, and people want this as well. I've got a dear friend who's an Oxford Down in Oxford and an Oxford Down in Doctor, a doctor down in Oxford who says people come in for a certain medication, he says, okay, I can give you it. You know, I can see six, nine months down the line you're likely to be impotent. Blah, blah, blah. Oh, I don't care what my pills. Then they'll be back in for seeing the can't function. So then it's the Viagra. Then you know, even if he tells them what likely, so he just prescribes. He says if people are interested to know, then I educate them and if they don't, I just prescribe. And I think you know what else can he do. He's, he's of our sort of mind, but he kind of woke up to that in the last couple of years of his training and now he's in the system. So he's trying to do as much good as he can within that system.

Antony Sammeroff: 22:47

But you know, I speak to a lot of mainstream doctors when I'm researching and they are very knowledgeable about physiology, anatomy, all sorts of things. They do have a certain expertise and I don't find them to be when I speak to them I can't speak for anyone else's experience the way they were when I was a kid, like more authoritarian or like, yes, I'm the doctor. Like a lot of time when they hear how much I know, they just find you. Obviously they can't speak to me on their the level. They speak to another doctor with all of the technical terms, but they know that they can speak to me like way above the level of a layperson. So they kind of find that level and they're very generous with sharing their knowledge and a lot of them believe a lot of the things I say. I've been speaking in very general terms in this interview, which is quite nice.

Antony Sammeroff: 23:42

The book is not like that. The book is very precise and specific. So people don't actually know how compelling the case is right. So I'm just I'm not gonna spend a huge amount of time on some of the myths, just to give a quick overview because of a couple of them. Quickly, because people can get all the details in the free e-book at 7pharmamethscom and I prefer to do this, you know, because people can get it in the book, get the details in the book. So but the people just don't know how they can, how compelling the case is, because they think or our parents are grandparents used to die of all these diseases, but now they don't, so it must be pharmaceutical medicine.

Antony Sammeroff: 24:32

I'm just gonna quote the mainstream sources here.

Antony Sammeroff: 24:35

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention told us in 1999 that while the average life span of persons in the United States have lengthened by greater than 30 years since 1900, 25 years of this game are attributable to advances in public health rather than medicine.

Antony Sammeroff: 24:56

And in 2000 so I'll go into detail what that means in 2000, pediatrics released a very comprehensive study in which they explained that 90% of the decline in all infectious disease mortality was down to improvements in sanitary conditions and nutrition rather than medical treatment. Cleaner drinking water was responsible for nearly half of the total mortality reduction in the 20th century and nearly two-thirds of the child mortality reduction. So what we have here is mainstream pharmaceutical medicine, taking credit for the fact that at the beginning of the industrial revolution, people in cities lived in miserable conditions small, dark, damp flats with mold, polluted air, no heating, no refrigerator, poverty, cold, meager meals, poor hygiene, scarcity, fight for survival, stress. Right now, and we could put it simply the plumber did far more to drive out disease than any doctor ever has yes and, thanks to my friend Mike Dally, the natural path.

Antony Sammeroff: 26:18

For he just randomly said you know, the plumbers did more good for people's health than doctors and it was like I'm having that. That was excellent.

Catherine Llewellyn: 26:27

You just said it offhand so plumbers the world around can pat themselves on the back, mm-hmm so okay.

Antony Sammeroff: 26:36

So there you go, and according to so we said, people gained 30 years, although, shockingly, life expected says been declining since 2014. So if we don't change something about the way we look at health care, we're going to live shorter lives than our parents and maybe even our grandparents, maybe even our great grandparents. Experts at Harvard's and Cal Kings College said three and a half years medical care for disease increases lifespan of Americans by around three and a half years of the 30 and preventive care, and in which they could include things like blood pressure and cancer screening, cancelling about smoking and routine aspirin to prevent heart attacks and routine immunization, which I shall dispute in a second add perhaps 18 to 19 months to people's lives, because most of the things that people get immunized are not diseases that you get anyway anymore, and you know, and I mean, there's a hepatitis vaccine which is a sexually transmitted disease. Why would you give that to a child? A baby they're not going to, they're not going to be sexually active. By the time they are sexually active, even if the vaccine works so well, it will have worn off.

Antony Sammeroff: 28:01

So when we look at these treatments like polio was already hugely in the decline by the 1950s when the first oral vaccine was made available in between 1950 and 1955, when the famous Jonas song vaccine came out and they it declined very steeply. Already tuberculosis is meant to have been cured by em. What's the drug called stripped of my son? But it already declined massively by 1945 before stripped of my son was even introduced. So other things like your pneumonia, patrice's, measles countries that didn't get vaccines for years because they were poor also saw all of these disease decline over the same period and compared to it along with rich countries they got the shots early. So maybe that was because she had immunity, maybe because living standards were rising during that period due to all the new technology, or a combination of both. So I mean, let's little of the world had even seen the smallpox vaccine by the time that there weren't eruptions of smallpox anymore. Hardly hardly anyone had got yet.

Antony Sammeroff: 29:21

And then if you look at other conditions like scour via rickets and cholera, they had no mainstream medical treatments at all. But they all declined too. So that's what I say when I said the CDC told us in 1999 what was it sorry? And pediatrics told us that 90% of decline in all infectious disease mortality was down to improvements in sanitary conditions and nutrition by what they're saying is, rather than pharmaceuticals, or or m yeah, or vaccines. So in fact, they even said this, american Academy of Pediatrics 2007 vaccination does not account for the impressive declines in mortality witnessed in the 20th century, because if 90% of the decline in infectious disease mortality among US children occurred between 1940, then that's long before most anti-biotics and vaccines were even invented. Yeah, so okay, I'll take a break the thing that strikes me.

Catherine Llewellyn: 30:29

That's really interesting. Something that strikes me is, it seems to me and tell me if you think this is right that people's willingness to be uncomfortable or you know, or to allow something that's wrong with them to sort itself out, to me seems to be lower now than it was a child you know, when I was a child, people were much more prepared to go. No, it's a cold, I don't need to take anything for that yeah, cuz.

Catherine Llewellyn: 30:56

I can actually recover. I can eat some oranges, I can get some more sleep yeah, and now the minute someone gets a symptom. You know, people have medicine cabinet's full of stuff just in case they feel uncomfortable and I'm wondering whether there's a kind of a correlation between the reduction in the incidence of sickness and the reduction in capacity for discomfort and willingness to endure yeah, I think that's one of our themes here.

Antony Sammeroff: 31:28

So I'm always stunned. I've got a kind of the opposite rear-ends. You know, whenever I've got a cough or anything, if I go around to my parents house it's like, oh, that's terrible cough you've got. You should really go see the doctor. And I'm like looking at them like are you insane? Like why would I go to see the doctor? It's a cough, you know it's gonna, it's going to, I'm gonna recover from it myself.

Antony Sammeroff: 31:53

But it's also depends on what you actually think the function, you know. Do you think that the body just gets sick, random and like you're? You know if you've got mucus or things coming out of your sinuses or, and is that just you know your body making a mistake? From my perspective, these are clear symptoms of the body trying to clear something out. So if you've got mucus and you take a drug to stop it, in my view all you're doing is the, as you're stopping the self-healing process. You know the, for whatever reason, your body wants to eject something through through the nose or them or the mouth or, you know, the back passage when you get diarrhea. So what are taken to be symptoms of illness are symptoms of the body's natural tendency to clean itself of harmful elements that it doesn't need, so that can heal and you know and from a people have chronic inflammation now that they can't get rid of.

Antony Sammeroff: 33:05

But I mean, inflammation is to increase the blood flow to an affected area. So you it's created deliberately by nature send the blood over there and pull out everything we don't need right? Obviously, more and more people know that a fever is. It's also part of the healing process, as the body's deliberately raising the temperature, and as long as that's not above, you know, 40, 40 point 40 and a half degrees Celsius taken from the mouth, and it's not dangerous. And if it does reach a higher temperature than that, you know, you do the things and be the body in cold water, and then you should be obviously eliminating sugar and, and better still, fasting when you've, when you get sick, to allow the body time to clean itself. So so yeah, pharmaceutical drugs. Now, one of the things another one, and I address this in the book is they blur the lines, because everyone's know someone or has had an operation and the doctors have saved them. But surgery isn't pharmaceutical medicine.

Antony Sammeroff: 34:17

You see so we, we clump these together pharmaceuticals and surgery right if you need a skin graft, if you have a contusion, if you get in a car accident, if they need to stitch you up. The mainstream doctors are miracle workers and it's easy to look at the achievements. You know MRI machines, insulin again, it's a hormone right that the body needs and they save lives of diabetics. If you have an organ removed, they can replace the harm hormones if you have your thyroid right removed, and so A lot of what they can do is quite miraculous, but they sort of clump together. The achievements are taken to be ubiquitous when you actually look at the huge sums of money they're spending on things like at least 500 billion or more spent on the war against cancer, but you're more likely to get cancer today than you were when they started the war on cancer. They're not into preventing diseases. Even the American Cancer Society. Look at who funds the American Cancer Society. They're there to encourage people to go to more screenings so that private hospitals can make more money. Their idea of prevention is screening. Their idea of prevention is not eat better, take more exercise, get lots of fresh air, sunlight. What's the purpose of these things like stretching your body. Look at your body like a physiological organism that works on the laws of physics and biology. When you stretch, the blood can flow into the cells in your muscles, take out waste products and oxygenate your body so that you feel healthy and you're clean. This is the thing that they don't believe in in mainstream medicine.

Antony Sammeroff: 36:31

Detox, which I've seen so many people reverse conditions Like your dad put you on two weeks a fruit diet a wonderful cleanse for the body, so easy to digest, so full of water and nutrients. If you think about it this way, you've got two rubbish bins in the garage. And when you were younger, your parents cooked meals for you. You had PE class at school. You had a couple of pieces of fruit in your packed lunch and you were creating five bags of garbage a week. Then you grow older. You sit in the house more, you don't get as much fresh air. You're creating six bags of garbage. Then you stop taking exercise. Then you're getting fat or you're getting lazier. You don't want to get up to pee, so you drink less water. So many people say, oh, I can't drink water because it makes me go to the bathroom by the way. So now you're creating nine bags of trash, but the Ben men are only coming once a week and they can only take away two garbage bins.

Catherine Llewellyn: 38:00

Can I just come in there? Because, you just did a. I'm going to ask you for a linking thing in between the two things you said You're talking about your life is our changes. As a result of that, you're creating more trash Now.

Antony Sammeroff: 38:15

I don't know why that is, but so is business, exactly Sorry.

Catherine Llewellyn: 38:20

How is it that we're?

Antony Sammeroff: 38:21

creating more. So all of your cells breathe and eat and poop the same way that you do. When they run their processes we call them metabolic processes they create metabolic waste, which is cell poop, trash. Now your blood comes along, delivers oxygen and pulls out waste. Some people say it's actually the length that pulls out waste rather than the blood. More research necessary. So at least in mainstream medicine they think the blood takes away your waste products as well.

Antony Sammeroff: 39:07

So what's happening when you're eating processed food? Is a vegetable or a fruit has all the enzymes in it required to break it down? Processing food literally means killing the enzymes in it and the interest of shelf life so that it can stay on the shelf. That's why it doesn't go off, because it's got no enzymes in it. So as you eat more of this stuff, your body needs to work extremely difficult tasks to break it down. And then you start getting things like congestion, which means constipation, or arterial plaque and things like that, because there's products in the food you're eating, if you can call it food, that your body can't readily break down. Now your cells are creating more cell poop than your blood can take away. Now you start to get sluggish, you start to get brain fog. Then you start to get skin conditions like eczema, because your body can't remove the waste quickly enough through your stools and you're in your sweat, your breath, so it needs to find other ways of trying to inject it. You don't have to store those. If you keep on making this ammonia urea, then it collects in your toes and then you get gout and you think why do people get arthritis in their fingers and toes? They're the furthest away from the heart, it's the most difficult for the blood to get in and take away the waste products. And some people say it's the intelligence of the body that doesn't want those wastes to be in your organs, because your organs are essential. So push away harmful elements into the extremities so you start getting things in your legs and your fingers first, and then you'll get an excess mucus because your body's trying to eject. Yeah, thank you.

Antony Sammeroff: 41:22

Yeah, and I just used that as an analogy for a house with the garbage truck coming once a week and the thing is, the bin men are only willing to take away two bins, but if you're creating an extra bag of waste once every week, after a while your garage will be full of rats and that's what happens. That's why you get a bacterial infection. Everything is going to come along and eat all the cell poop, right? If you leave the dishes in the sink for too long, cockroaches are going to come up and you can't go. How dare they? You can spray them and kill them, but you've not cleaned the dishes out of the sink, which are the problem. So that is what is happening with all people who are sick and keep on getting bacterial infections. The bacteria are there because you invited them there. They're trying to eat, they're trying to feed on your cellular waste, so they're actually the nature's garbage.

Antony Sammeroff: 42:44

What is actually happening when you start to get fungal infections and then you get pneumonia and you get. What's happening is your body is decomposing before you die. That's the organisms trying to take your body back to the air. It's the grim reaper knocking on your door before you die. So that's why so many conditions can be cured by these two simple things Giving the body a rest so that you can.

Antony Sammeroff: 43:11

So now you're fasting, drinking seven to 12 glasses of water a day, and now the garbage men are coming twice a week instead of once a week, if you like. Now you're drinking green juices. You're getting the nutrients into the cells. It's a very interesting thing because One of the great things about juicing is if fruit or vegetable or fruit juice will go all the way through the tube, all the way through the digestive system, whereas if you drink water, it simply gets absorbed through the walls of the small intestine. When it hits the small intestine, so you get a radical rehydration of the body because your tube might be dry, you know. Your digestive, your alimentary canal, might be dehydrated from toast, corn chips, all of the. You don't see the animals eating dry food in nature, with the exception of nuts, you know, and this is dry food, is desiccating you.

Catherine Llewellyn: 44:20

Yeah, yeah.

Antony Sammeroff: 44:21

So yeah, it's very interesting If you take one. If you find that when you drink water you pee quite quickly, you just take one crystal of Celtic salt and take it with the exorbitant in your mouth and then the magnesium will help take the water into your cells.

Catherine Llewellyn: 44:46

It's interesting you say that because I've been putting salt in my water. You know, like just a pinch of, yeah, the salt in my water, right, and it doesn't take, because I have filtered water, which, of course, can taste like nothing. Just adding that it definitely feels like it's hydrating me better.

Antony Sammeroff: 45:09

It's that pinch of salt.

Antony Sammeroff: 45:11

Yeah, I mean I was like kind of indoctrinated. I've moved all over the map. You know the skill that all salt is bad and there's no such thing as good salt, only less bad salt. And but I spoke in, you know I'm always listening and speaking to different natural paths and it was quite clear that Well, first of all, celtic salt is meant to be the best and that I just drink tons of water and a lot of the time it goes through me. Sorry for the details.

Antony Sammeroff: 45:48

People at home, sometimes when I start talking about detox, I'll say something like I'm sorry to talk shit, I can't, I can't, sorry to talk crap, but you know, I think I see a little bit of Celtic salt, sea salt. It's specifically. Yeah, it gives, and you know fighters do it, boxers do it to get the water in and I guess, like table salt, I would avoid it definitely. You know they take it out. The sodium chloride is the fastest to crystallize when they dehydrate it, so they want to work it quickly, so they just take that and then they bleach it and then I think they add.

Antony Sammeroff: 46:42

They sometimes add something, something that should be in your body. So best avoid, get the good stuff because there's, you know 80 to 90 something minerals in these, you know, in sea salt, celtic salt, himalayan salt even I got. I was way, way ahead of the curve adopting Himalayan salt and it is very tasty, although some people say when you analyze it it's got traces of certain heavy metals and things that you don't want. So that's why I'm sticking with the Celtic salt for just now. I don't know if that's true or not, but I'll take the Himalayan salt if it's readily available.

Catherine Llewellyn: 47:26

Yeah, yeah, fantastic. So I'm really interested in the fact that you decided to write a book about this Could you tell us a bit about that, how that kind of came to be that you decided to do it, and what was it like writing it? I mean, it sounds like you did an enormous amount of research, yeah.

Antony Sammeroff: 47:45

I'm still doing because this book is going to be subsumed in a bigger book, so this was like a teaser for seven farmaments. So it's quite short. I should have mentioned that. The outside it's not a great big long book. You can download it for free. There's also the option on the website to throw me some contribution if you wish to, because a lot of work went into it and it does make a difference. You know when people do that, it also puts a smile on my face and I think, oh, that's really nice, someone voluntarily put their hand in their pocket.

Antony Sammeroff: 48:17

So I'd already written quite a lot about the economics of health care and I was moving from project to project. I've not released a full length. I hadn't released a full length book since I did the UBI one and I couldn't finish anything. I think the pandemic dragging on and on for ages. And I did. I was writing ghost writing articles for a natural path since the cease for taking his talks and turning them into articles and I learned tons from that. So because I have this unique perspective from my own experience healing experience and the economics of health care all the books on health care seem to take it from one angle, whereas I thought I could give this panoramic view, now, the time it took to write this bigger project was just spanning out and spanning out. So what I did was I put this ebook out as a teaser because it wasn't doing anything on my hard drive to help anyone, and then I was going to write the bigger book. Now that's. If I'd known how long that was going to take, I would have put something out on Amazon right now.

Antony Sammeroff: 49:47

But this is nearly finished and even this, even this thing, the next project but will be only a waypoint, because it's going to be about 45, 50,000 words, log, which is good. People can hold that in their hand, they can give it to their doctor, they can give it to their niece, they can give it to someone who's struggling with an illness they think might be curable by natural apathy that isn't curable by pharmaceutical medicine, and I have spoken to all sorts of people who are told they were incurable and reverse their colitis or the IBS or their cancer. Even so, heart problems, type 2 diabetes, usually can be cured, but people need to be willing to commit to lifestyle changes. So high blood pressure very, very easy to cure. I mean easy, simple to cure, not easy because people need to have the well power to adjust their lifestyle. So this book 45 is going to event now.

Antony Sammeroff: 51:00

I wasn't sure if I was going to do it or not. I left most of the economics. I just summarized the economics of healthcare in this chapter called. Healthcare should cost an arm and a leg.

Catherine Llewellyn: 51:11

Very nice.

Antony Sammeroff: 51:13

Yeah, I demonstrate how we could provide healthcare at a fraction of the cost we currently do. But that was just a summary of the chapters on economics. Now I might have the opportunity to teach a course, an online course, on the economics of healthcare, which is a gift from God, if it goes ahead, because it means that working on this course in tandem with writing the book will mean that I'm doing the same amount of work but for two different purposes at once. So, speaking to other economists and experts on that in the process. So, yeah, I'm just kind of in the I don't want to say in the trenches, because that's a disrespect to people who were actually in the trenches and got shot at but what I mean is I've just got my head down in the books, like trying to perfect the style, trying to get the information across as economically as possible.

Antony Sammeroff: 52:11

I write like I'm speaking. I wrote about theater for 10, 12 years and by doing that I got a punchy style and, with all due respect, economists aren't exactly known for their punchy, accessible style, but I'm always using as many devices as I can to make it very readable and simple so that when people see my stuff it's easy, because people don't read anymore, so it needs to be nice and easy. The ideal is like you left the butter out for a few hours and the toast is piping hot, and you spread our knife across the toast and the butter just melts. That's how I want my writing to come across that smooth.

Catherine Llewellyn: 52:58

I like that because I remember trying as a child, trying to spread the toast with butter straight from the fridge.

Antony Sammeroff: 53:08

Yeah, and I don't want that to be people's experience of reading my stuff, so I'm always working very hard to write in a nice punchy style. I always start every section with a little anecdote or device to make it punchy, just like I learned from being a theatre critic.

Catherine Llewellyn: 53:29

Brilliant. So when do you think the main book will be out? Any idea about that?

Antony Sammeroff: 53:37

The next. Yeah Well, I'm hoping to be sending it to get off very, very soon. There's just a few sections that need to be tweaked and brought into line, so before mid-November at the latest, because we've got some speaking opportunities coming up and I want to have something that people can hold in their hands. Do you know what I mean? I don't want to turn up empty handed and I don't want people to leave empty handed, or otherwise it's a bit of a wasted opportunity. So it should be around November, I guess Beginning of November or end of October.

Catherine Llewellyn: 54:16

Yeah, Very exciting Well. I think, it's a wonderful thing to do, I think.

Antony Sammeroff: 54:22

I've learned so much and it's so interesting. There's so many elements to this. Any one chapter of the book could fill a whole show. You pick up on something like 200 to 800 billion wasted a year on unnecessary tests in the USA. Wow, that's enough to solve world poverty. What the hell is going on there? The more you read about it, the more you go. That's such a tiny topic unnecessary tests it's huge. You could write a whole book about it, and it's extremely interesting to find out all the reasons why they test unnecessarily. So it's all very, very, very interesting. There's no topic within healthcare that I've come across that has been boring. That's why I've been able to write about it for coming on two years now and still finding things that are interesting.

Catherine Llewellyn: 55:15

Yeah, yeah, but I think for a lot of us it's perhaps something that's a bit difficult to think about because we're so used to bundling along just okay, something goes wrong, I call the doctor and hopefully he can help. I'd rather not think about it. I'd rather just concentrate on the stuff that I want to concentrate on. But I think it is important to think about these things because they are. I'll give you some very small example the other day. Sometimes in the summer, I get bitten by insects or cat fleas or whatever.

Antony Sammeroff: 55:50

In fact, I often you must have lovely, clean bloods, Catherine.

Catherine Llewellyn: 55:55

Thank you. That's a nice way to think of it, but it itches. I get these bites and they itch, and what I've done sometimes is to take an anti-histamine tablet.

Antony Sammeroff: 56:06

It uses the itching.

Catherine Llewellyn: 56:08

But the other day I thought I've got a real feeling that taking these anti-histamine tablets is a really bad idea. And I looked it up and I found a thing which explained to me what the histamine, what the histamines in the body are supposed to do. And the histamine in the body, the histamine production in the body, underpins many of the correct functioning of the body.

Antony Sammeroff: 56:32

You know a lot of the correct functioning of the body. So when you take an, anti-histamine medication.

Catherine Llewellyn: 56:37

It undermines all sorts of systems in the body in a way that's actually really quite dangerous. So that's another tiny example where you know, taking an anti-histamine pill. That's not really taking your medicine. Surely it's just a little tiny thing. But then you look it up and you think, oh my God that could be so unbalancing for the system.

Antony Sammeroff: 57:02

Right, so correct. Do you know what the best anti-histamine in the world is? Water.

Catherine Llewellyn: 57:10

Really.

Antony Sammeroff: 57:11

Yeah, water is an anti-histamine and you can. So best thing to do is drinka glass of water, wait a while, maybe drink half a glass of water, wait 10 minutes, drink the other half and then just do that four times, six times. See how you get on. It's very much the same with cholesterol. Cholesterol is used to repair your tissues, generate hormones. Half of the overall weight of your brain is cholesterol, right. So when people take a statin, that can only affect the bad cholesterol that the doctor wants it to affect. It's going to destroy the good stuff as well, because the body is a holistic system. It's like when you try and I don't know if you're like this, but see if I try and curl my pinky, I can curl my fourth finger without curling my pinky. I can't curl my pinky. Oh, you can do it, okay, well then you can obviously take statins as well. I'm just kidding.

Catherine Llewellyn: 58:11

So what's the name, if I can curl my.

Antony Sammeroff: 58:14

Well, it just means that your tendons aren't tied together. But you know, sometimes when you scratch a dog's back, it starts throwing its leg and it starts throwing its leg. Its leg starts spasming because the nerves are attached to one another. You can't throw one switch without throwing them all, so you can. All the switches are All the knobs. Also, the body regulates itself to where it thinks it ought to be.

Antony Sammeroff: 58:49

So if you have high blood pressure, that's not just your body being dumb, it's maybe trying to rush your. Well, it might be that you've got, you're holding like a hose, you're squeezing the hose because you've got arterial plaque. But I mean, it might just be trying to rush nutrients into, like force, nutrients into your cells, because it's the only way that can do it. So when you lower the blood pressure using medication rather than changes of lifestyle, you're not achieving the same result as you would be achieving if you lowered it naturally by, say, reducing the amount of plaque in your arteries, like you know. Okay, now you're safe. Now you're safe.

Antony Sammeroff: 59:38

Taking a blood pressure medication or any medication for a risk factor, god forbid. Now, instead of telling people to go to the gym, they're giving them injections because they're a base of drugs. You know this is not going to help in the long term, but basically these handfuls of pills that people are taking. It's leading to the epidemic of dementia amongst old people and things like that. Because you can't, you're just, you're. The pharmaceuticals are destroying the functionality of the body over time.

Catherine Llewellyn: 1:00:15

Yeah, yeah. I had a guest on the other day who was on pharmaceuticals for years and never got better and she went hold on, I'm not better.

Antony Sammeroff: 1:00:26

So she started following what you've been saying fasting better nutrition, and now she's one of the healthiest, most bouncy people. Amazing.

Catherine Llewellyn: 1:00:36

And completely transformed the situation.

Antony Sammeroff: 1:00:39

I'm so glad for her.

Catherine Llewellyn: 1:00:40

Yeah, absolutely, and I actually think I'm going to say something that's slightly off topic but which does Over it. I actually believe that, although when we look around at the world, it may look like there's a lot of stuff that's going wrong, you know, I actually believe and feel that we are on the verge of a breakthrough, that humanity is kind of on the verge of a breakthrough in terms of consciousness in terms of how we're actually showing up with beings and I think all this stuff about health this book you've written.

Catherine Llewellyn: 1:01:16

There are other thought leaders who are talking about it. There's a whole kind of upwelling of people highlighting this sort of thing. I think there's no coincidence.

Antony Sammeroff: 1:01:28

I think that's very, very important, for us to go to the next stage as a Right.

Catherine Llewellyn: 1:01:35

When I've fasted as well and I've had times when I've had a particular upswing in health and it's made a significant difference in the way my mind works. Right, right, I'm going to say it with my emotions Exactly, In a way.

Antony Sammeroff: 1:01:51

Exactly Because you're a biological system, so if you get the waste out of your body, then the whole system functions better. Yeah, yes, well, I hope you're right. One of my favourite psychologists, psychotherapist Carl Rogers, was asked what he thought was going on and he said when I look at the world, I'm pessimistic, but when I look at people, I'm optimistic, and that's what I feel. Very much the same when I speak to people they all seem to be evolving. It's only when I look at the world and I see why are they spending so much money on treatments which their own journals say are not effective? Why is the government? You'd think? Yeah, it's very shocking, actually, but what it means is we're sitting on a treasure chest, because if they're spending millions and millions every year on ineffective treatments, that means there's millions and millions there to be reallocated to spending on effective treatments, yes, on healing places.

Antony Sammeroff: 1:03:02

This was not meant to be a solo adventure. People eat pizza with their friends and family, so why do we expect the doctor to say um, go out, get some exercise, stop eating junk and stop smoking and cut down on the alcohol Off, you go? How can we expect people to do hard things that are good for them on an individual basis when they're doing all the easy things that are bad for them as part of a community. Finally, what we need is institutional support. Now, you don't get institutional support for becoming healthy, you get institutional barriers for becoming healthy and you get institutional rewards for becoming unhealthy, because lots of people profit from you being unhealthy.

Catherine Llewellyn: 1:04:08

And also because it's a pattern that we're accustomed to, and when there's a pattern, that's easier to keep going in the same pattern than it is to change it.

Antony Sammeroff: 1:04:17

Yeah, well, I mean, people want to turn up to the doctor and get a pill for every ill, a drug for every bug, a vaccine injection for every infection, chemotherapy and radiation for every mutation and, when in doubt, cut it out because it's a quick fix. But the state should not be supporting them in doing that. They should say well, if that's what you want, pay for it yourself. What we have got for you, what we can help you with, is to join a program with people in a similar demographic to you, where you can turn up, get exercise and guidance on what to eat according to your body's needs, make friends and reduce your risk of diabetes. That's what the institutions should be providing.

Antony Sammeroff: 1:05:11

If you want the quick fix, if you want to do the easy thing, that's on you. You don't get to medicate yourself into sickness so that the rest of society has to pick up the tab through the tax system anymore. But if you want to participate in rehabilitating your body, we've got lots of experts that can help you do that. That's the way it should be in a sane society, but people don't even know that it's an option, which is another thing that I've got a bugbear about. In a way, I wouldn't mind, as long as people were getting informed consent and they knew that there was another way to do it, and they still made those choices. But that is the consciousness of the planet and that's why you're here to bring truth, so that we can transcend it.

Catherine Llewellyn: 1:06:10

We all play our part, anthony, as do you in your work as well. No, you're right, I agree with you. It would be great if the state did that, and maybe one day.

Antony Sammeroff: 1:06:20

Maybe one day We'll be at a very different state. I think that's a good place for me to give my essential details.

Catherine Llewellyn: 1:06:31

I would love you to do that. Yes, please.

Antony Sammeroff: 1:06:34

I think the best thing to do is to go to excuse me. This is just me building up suspense. 7pharma mythscom the number seven pharma like pharmaceutical and myths like Greek or Roman mythology. If you put your email address in there, you'll get the ebook. I will add you to my substack so that you can follow my articles as they come out. You can, of course, unsubscribe from my substack, but I recommend you probably won't, because the content is good. That will help you keep up to date with me and also, when the paperback book is available, which you may want to purchase several copies of, leave them in your Christmas stockings for your family members obnoxiously. They'll be like wow, it's the best gift I ever had.

Catherine Llewellyn: 1:07:30

That's right, fantastic, wonderful, anthony, you know. My last question I'll always ask is has there been a favourite part of our conversation today for you?

Antony Sammeroff: 1:07:43

I kind of like just connecting with you again, Catherine. I like the way that we led in from my story on the park bench into a kind of more, because I can quote lots of facts and figures and sometimes I do on shows and people like that to that extent. But having a more rich person to person connection with you was my favourite part of the show.

Catherine Llewellyn: 1:08:06

Beautiful Thank you. Wonderful to have you on. I think what you're doing with this book is amazing.

Antony Sammeroff: 1:08:10

Thank you.

Catherine Llewellyn: 1:08:12

I'm all for it. I think we can say it's part of a movement. I think there may be a movement.

Antony Sammeroff: 1:08:16

Yeah, by the way, there's a whole chapter on the book debunking the myth that mainstream medicine is scientific and everything else. I use their own journals. I use quotes from editors of the biggest journals in the world to demonstrate that the science and medicine is well. I mean, it's just junk science. It's mostly, it's almost entirely funded by the pharmaceutical industry for the purpose of indoctrinating medical professionals to think drugs are more effective than they are and have fewer side effects than they do, so that they prescribe them. It's not me saying it, it's their own journals. Come to that conclusion when they do meta-analyses of their own studies. So that's something that people might enjoy.

Catherine Llewellyn: 1:09:06

Absolutely Fantastic. Well, thank you so much, anthony, and it's been wonderful, as it was last time. And I look forward to the next time you come on, whatever excuse we think of for that.

Antony Sammeroff: 1:09:16

Yes, I look forward to that too. Thank you so much for having me back.

Catherine Llewellyn: 1:09:23

Thank you for listening to Truth and Transcendence and thank you for supporting the show by rating, reviewing, subscribing, buying me a coffee and telling a friend. If you'd like to know more about my work, you can find out about mentoring, workshops and energy treatments on beingspaceworld. Have a wonderful week and I'll see you next time.